Church of Wells/YMBBA Ministries



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10/06/2013 9:51 pm  #21


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

Kjdean49 wrote:

Which one?

Calvary Chapel Bible College where a few came from and were recruited from 
 

 

10/06/2013 9:53 pm  #22


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

Hmmm.didn't realize Sean had attended there after graduating from baylor

 

10/06/2013 9:54 pm  #23


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

Sean didn't....other recruiters did. They have been significantly warned!

Last edited by 4everfaithful (10/06/2013 9:54 pm)

 

10/06/2013 11:04 pm  #24


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

4everfaithful wrote:

Kjdean49 wrote:

Which one?

Calvary Chapel Bible College where a few came from and were recruited from 
 

I can confirm that both Masao G. as well as Jordan and Nickie Fraker went to Calvary Chapel Bible College in Southern California. I know there is at least one or two more, but I forget who. I still have some of Jordan's older papers stored away somewhere form when we lived together.

 

10/06/2013 11:23 pm  #25


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

Aegonis3 wrote:

4everfaithful wrote:

Kjdean49 wrote:

Which one?

Calvary Chapel Bible College where a few came from and were recruited from 
 

I can confirm that both Masao G. as well as Jordan and Nickie Fraker went to Calvary Chapel Bible College in Southern California. I know there is at least one or two more, but I forget who. I still have some of Jordan's older papers stored away somewhere form when we lived together.

yep and Brett and Suzie .....snagged
 

Last edited by 4everfaithful (11/09/2013 8:27 pm)

 

11/09/2013 6:04 pm  #26


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

mtriplett1 wrote:

If I can offer a theory... I would tend to guess that most in this group came to it honestly seeking to be closer to the Lord. Notice what I said, "seeking to be closer." I think, however they came, there was a great desire to be closer to God. But what gets in the way is that they want to be doing something to get closer and to gain God's favor. When the truth is that we can do NOTHING to gain God's favor. We can't work hard enough, we can't preach hard enough we can't read our Bibles long enough and we can't pray enough.

I think that's where they all stray from the truth because they want to believe, "there must be something I can do to get closer to God." They refuse, or can't believe that all we have to do is accept God's gift, no catch. Whether this comes from a incident in childhood, unloving parents, death in the family or ruined relationships that makes them feel inadequate toward God. That's where the fear comes from.

Now I can't imagine where the "elders" come from, because they blatantly prey on the others fears, they definately have other issues. But in a group like this, you must have 2 groups, someone who wants to control and someone willing to be controlled. Unfortunately, when the controlled group gives themselves over to the leadership, they are now totally open to spiritual abuse.

That's my amateur psychoanalysis.

 
I think you are correct.  There must be a guilt struggle for a lot of these young people.  Do you ever wonder why there are no older elders and members?   (except Mrs. Booker)  Is there age discrimination in selecting the proper candidate for this version of salvation?

Last edited by 2 Peter (11/09/2013 6:06 pm)


Heb 4:12
 

12/15/2013 1:37 am  #27


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

If there's any "sermon" of teaching that summarizes CoW belief system and doctrine and orgins, it's "The Sentence of Death - Do You Have It?" Ryan Ringnald, January 2012. It's long, more than an hour.
http://www.thechurchofwells.com/files/theme/The%20Sentence%20Of%20Death%20-%20Do%20You%20Have%20It.mp3

They condemn the salvation of Martin Luther (but he loves the man), John Calvin (but he loves the man), and are "afraid for many men." The sheer arrogance is creepy.

At 7.48, he mentions Watchmen Lee/Nee.

"It was once...said to me...the Lord showed me...there was a Watchman Nee...book.
He had a thought - he thought, what if all of those so-called champion Christians of the faith and we all look up to, that we all think are head and shoulders above the rest, they're bringing forth a hundred-fold of fruit! What if those men were the very bottom of the spectrum? And what if those men were not just the head and shoulders above the rest and bring forth much fruit as everyone else is goin' in with less rewards than these men, what if these are the only men that are in heaven?! And that scared me. What if...there isn't three categories of Christianity? What if there are those that suffer? Those that take up their cross, those that fight the good fight, that lay hold of eternal life, those that endure much trial, bring forth much fruit, and what if there's not another category except for heathen?! That drove me to where I am today. That was about four years ago that I read that. I had no assurance [of] salvation. I didn't think anyone was going to heaven. I didn't know anyone in this world right now that's going to heaven. Who then can be saved?!"

​"The Lord’s recovery, is a term coined and used by Watchman Nee and Witness Lee that refers to a cumulative recovery of truths lost during the degradation of the church beginning from the first century. Although Nee and Lee recognized that there were recoveries before the time of the Reformation, they often consider that the Lord’s recovery began with Martin Luther in the Reformation because it was from then that “significant” recoveries were made.

Others considered as part of the Lord’s recovery are Johann Arndt, Theodore Austin-Sparks, Margaret E. Barber, Bernard of Clairvaux, Jacob Boehme, Peter Böhler, John Bunyan, Brother Lawrence (Nicholas Herman), Jan Hus, George Henry Lang, William Law, Dwight Lyman Moody, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, Aiden Wilson Tozer,and many others."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord's_Recovery

 

10/23/2014 11:54 am  #28


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/FaithForum/Untitled-3_zps9ccd3ce5.gif
This sermon gives instruction to avoid the plague of making common cause with those who mock God and hold on to sin.

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv9%3C74%3Dot%3E3598%3D%3B43%3D525%3DXROQDF%3E2687792486255ot1lsi

"...the plague of making common cause..." ??

Oh dear. Of course, we knew this was coming... But a great example of how this works. A lot of fear and a ton of ignorance makes people easy to manipulate. Let's break it down.

"When I was in Dallas yesterday I observed the masses being moved by the Ebola plague that has been found in one man in Dallas."

I don't know what this means. The "masses" are being moved - as in relocated, or in the sense that people are worried and emotional?  
Using this kind of language is a psychological separator - us vs. them. It distances Daniel from "them" and removes connection to other people.

"...about 20 states in the USA have cases of some incurable respiratory sickness or plague that is effecting school children right now."

Well, sort of. Not exactly. First, let's be clear what this is. There is always "incurable respiratory sickness" in the human population on the planet Earth. It's called "a cold." Also, "the flu." Always has been; always will be. Viruses have no cure. They mutate and replicate in each and every host, and so become quite different in a very short time. Therefore, there is no point to creating any sort of a cure. Warts are a virus. So is athlete's foot and jock itch. Also measles, mumps, rubella and polio.
To say there is no "cure" should not be confused with treatment. Certainly these things are treatable. The infections caused by viruses are certainly cureable. And preventable. 

Second, let's be clear where this comes from. Well, internet news articles. The young men of 'Church of Wells' spend a lotta time surfing the internet. It's essentially their only interaction with the rest of the world. Google is their friend. Daniel was probably given this by one of the "elders" who probably saw it on Twitter. Yup, that's right, it was "tweeted." Last January.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/FaithForum/Untitled-3_zps9ccd3ce5.gif
"According to a tweet by CBS Evening News, a Houston hospital is 'inundated with sick children suffering from an incurable respiratory disease.'” 

 
The Daily Beast followed it up:

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv85%3A%3A%3Dot%3E3598%3D%3B43%3D525%3DXROQDF%3E2687846%3C%3B5255ot1lsi

"Yikes, you may be thinking—sick children? Incurable disease? Jesus where can I get my kids vaccinated? Or should I put a paper bag over their head? Or just go hide somewhere?

But relax! There is no real there there. Sorry, CBS. Twitter,  which was created, we had hoped, by the sound bite age for the sound bite age to prevent the sound bite excesses of the sound bite age, has backfired once again in creating what appears to be another tempest in the Twitter teapot."

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3A95%3A%3Dot%3E3598%3D%3B43%3D525%3DXROQDF%3E2687845%3B36255ot1lsi



Sean, Ryan and Jake are ignorant and poorly educated themselves, in spite of private schools and college education. But they know how to tap into everyday common fears that we all share, to keep their flock rooted in fear and compliant. To keep them there. To scare them so they won't leave.

Up next - more on Sean's sermon. He says the cause of the bubonic plague epidemic is unknown and quotes medieval fiction as truth.

 

10/26/2014 1:22 am  #29


Re: Fear, fear, and more fear...

The Fall of Humanity and the Resurrection of Christ - The Scope of the Great Commission
A recent lecture by Sean Morris. On the "contagiousness of depravity and sin."

Awhile back, Sean watched the documentary "The Black Plague" (Granada Television). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qsuE9lTBOg
He was riveted: 

"I believe it was the Lord who led me to begin [beacon?] to consider this pestilence. For reasons I knew not at the time. Reasons I wish to declare, to tell you about. To declare to you."

I listened to the lecture, but never did hear the reasons he wished to declare. What he got out of the film is quite different than what I got. He either ignores rather common basic information about bubonic plague, for his own purposes, or he's glaringly misinformed and ignorant.

"Nobody really knows what it is. Doesn't have a cure."

Boy, that couldn't be further from the truth! The plague is caused by the anaerobic coccobacillus Yersinia pestis, identified in June 1894 by two docs: Swiss/French bacteriologist Alexandre Yersin (in a lab in Vietnam) and Japanese bacteriologist Kitasato Shibasaburō (in a Hong Kong lab). Also known for the Kitasato flask.
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv9969%3Dot%3E3598%3D%3B43%3D525%3DXROQDF%3E2688254867255ot1lsi


This is basic microbiology. Like how milk is pasteurized. There is a body of sound scientific knowledge about this. It is absolutely inexcusable and unacceptable to promote misinformation and fear. Potentially harmful. Fear is epidemic, too. Kinda like what the documentary was saying. 

Turns out the Black Death was around back in the 6th century AD.

Justinianic Plague was caused by bacterium Yersinia pestis, DNA of skeletal remains shows
Date: May 10, 2013, Universität Mainz
Summary: Ancient DNA analyses of skeletal remains of plague victims from the 6th century AD provide information about the phylogeny and the place of origin of this pandemic.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130510075449.htm

This bacterium is easily treatable with common, inexpensive antibiotics. Of course, that was not the case in the 14th century, was it? It wasn't about God's rage. It was about rats and many many people packed into filth, squalor and crowds. Go here for good simple information:
http://www.history.com/topics/black-death/videos/coroners-report-plague

Sean: "Nobody really knows much about this plague because so many people died. There was no one to give an account of it." At which point, he goes on to talk about the medieval chroniclers that provided accounts of it. Which is what the documentary is about.

Sean: 

"In 3 years, 20 million people died. In six months, millions of people died. 7,000 houses would be abandoned. There was no order, no law. The policemen, the magistrates were dying."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Blackdeath2.gif/300px-Blackdeath2.gif


Total estimated deaths in the 14th century due to the plague: 50 million, based on an estimate of as much as 60% of Europe's population. Although the critical pandemic peaked between 1346 to 1353 (7 years), there were plague outbreaks for about 300 years.
The outbreak of bubonic plague (Plague of Justinian) of 541 and 542 ravaged areas of modern-day Europe, Northern Africa, and Russia, killing 5,000 people a day at its peak. The Great Plague of London killed off about 15% of the population (about 100,000) in 1665. Between 1918 and 1923, Spanish Flu claimed 75 million lives.

Sean gets a little incoherent:

"Some considered it was the rage of Almighty God chastizing the people. Most believed that. This documentary was by writings that were recovered from men that lived in that time who wrote accounts of this plague. One was a lawyer. I believe another was a historian. They would write accounts of the plague sweeping through their city and...states abroad.
They would write of people very specifically how they were dying. The ruthlessness and brutality of the destruction that was going on. And you'd see in their notebook that they're giving account by hand, with just ink and pen. And then they'd go to empty pages where there'd be some kind of scribing there: That I'm sick. I've been seized by the disease. I'm gonna die. So I will leave this historical writing here, for another man to pick up. If we live. Anyone at all. Beyond this time.

This was just one guy. Friar John Clyn was a 14th-century Irish friar and chronicler. Here's what he wrote:
"So that notable deeds should not perish with time, and be lost from the memory of future generations, I, seeing these many ills, and that the whole world encompassed by evil, waiting among the dead for death to come, have committed to writing what I have truly heard and examined; and so that the writing does not perish with the writer, or the work fail with the workman, I leave parchment for continuing the work, in case anyone should still be alive in the future and any son of Adam can escape this pestilence and continue the work thus begun."

"The reality is that Clyn was writing a military history of the geographical area of Kilkenny and Tipperary ... his audience was either the military men of that area or more specifically a military family such as the de la Freignes." The Annals of Ireland by Friar John Clyn, B. Williams, Four Courts Press, 2007.

What Sean's attempting to do is use in his lecture a bunch of writers, lawyers, academians, historians, physicians, priests and members of the nobility - the usual bunch of Europeans of the time - who chronicled the plague. Some survived; some didn't. There were written accounts from all over Europe.
Sean doesn't have a good understanding of medieval Europe, Italy, the lifestyles, how they lived, the economic systems. He adds in his own crude analysis, but it becomes clear that he's merely quoting the video production, verbatim. 

Gabriele de’ Mussis was a lawyer of Piacenza who died in 1356. His Historia de Morbo is the main source for the arrival of the plague in Europe, although it is not true that de’ Mussis was actually a passenger on the ship which brought the plague to Genoa, as previously thought. He is now known to have remained in Piacenza throughout the epidemic. The factual details which de’ Mussis provides have often been quoted, but this complete translation restores them to their moral framework: an extended meditation on the plague as an expression of divine anger.
"Here begins an account of the disease or mortality which occured in 1348, put together by Gabriele de’ Mussis of Piacenza. Everyone has a responsibility to keep some record of the disease and the deaths, and because I am myself from Piacenza I have been urged to write more about what happened there in 1348." 

Sean:

"One quote says this: 'As people realized the disease could not be cured; when one person lay sick in a house, no one would come near. Even dear friends would hide themselves away, weeping. The physician would not visit. The priest, panic-stricken, administered the sacraments with fear and trembling. No one knew what to do.'"

Well, not exactly. That isn't a quote from a writer. It's the narrator's script for the documentary.

Black Death: "As people realized the disease could not be cured, they were left with only their faith in god."

De’ Mussis: "When one person lay sick in a house no one would come near. Even dear friends would hide themselves away, weeping. The physician would not visit. The priest, panic-stricken, administered the sacraments with fear and trembling."

Sean:

"They were saturated with Cathlocism in this land. An Italian, er, a Florentino writer named Giovanni Capatio [sic] said this: 'Such terror was struck into the hearts of men and women by this calamity, that brother abandoned brother and the uncle his nephew. And the sister her brother. And very often, the wife her husband. But what was even worse and quite incredible was that fathers and mothers refused to see and tend to their own sick children as if they had not been theirs. Bewildered and terrified with neither defense nor understanding, families and friends shunned each other.' 
Giovanni goes on saying this: 'Almost all adopted the same cruel policy, which was to avoid entirely the sick and everything belonging to them. By so doing, each thought he would secure his own safety.'"

What he's talking about: Giovanni Boccaccio, a 14th-century Italian author. He wrote The Decameron. The introduction to the novel is the most famous literary treatment of the Black Death. As Boccaccio himself emphasises, however, the description is based on his own experiences in Florence.

"It was not merely a question of one citizen avoiding another, and of people almost invariably neglecting their neighbours and rarely or never visiting their relatives, addressing them only from a distance; this scourge had implanted so great a terror in the hearts of men and women that brothers abandoned brothers, uncles their
nephews, sisters their brothers, and in many cases wives deserted their husbands. But even worse, and almost incredible, was the fact that fathers and mothers refused to nurse and assist their own children, as though they did not belong to them.
Hence the countless numbers of people who fell ill, both male and female, were entirely dependent upon either the charity of friends (who were few and far between) or the greed of servants, who remained in short supply despite the attraction of high wages out of all proportion to the services they performed."

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRgBbqUPjb75LF9NgzeX-Bj9iLoAcTObCn6O7VtIzsdBTgXdlXxQ

  

Sean:

"Another quote says this: 'In Milan, the fear of contagion or the contagiousness of the disease - the FEAR of contagion - fueled a brutal response. City authorities ordered the houses of the sick to be locked and shuttered, leaving the victims inside to die. Everyone now believed God was punishing the world. On the edge of the abyss, the rest of Europe braced itself. Seeking answers. Could anything stop God's rage?'"

Again, not a quote from Boccaccio. Quoting the video narration. Not quoting a medieval writer.  

Sean:

" Completely lost heathen secular society."
"The response of humanity: In the name of love, even, and in the name of survival, in their own heathenistic mind, they followed the commandments of God.
That were given to us. Concerning how we might escape Satan's kingdom. In the depravity of fallen humanity. I say that it was in the name of love, because if they would have recognized this was the judgement of God, and not idolized humanity or not idolized human suffering, but instead recognized that this was the affliction of the wrath of God that is just. And therefore. As the law says in Leviticus 14, to isolate the plague and destroy it rather than let it spread, and sought God for cleansing, they could have been saved.
Quotes by heathen men, who probably have never read Matthew 10, other passages in scripture where Jesus Christ speaks of the division of humanity, and the new testament forms of isolating depravity so that it doesn't spread among his Saints and defile them with uncleanness. As you know, Brethren, as it says [pronounced with a long 'a', like "plays"] in Corinthians 6, verse 17, "come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord." Be ye separate. Be isolated from that which is contagious. From that which by a mere casual unconscious touch, you will BECOME that object! Which God hates. Come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord! And touch NOT the unclean thing. The unclean thing was the object of God's abhorrence [what?]. And uncleanness, according to the law, Old Testament or the New Testament application. When you touch it, you BECOME UNCLEAN. Like the thing that you touched.

"If they had sought God for cleansing, they could have been saved." Huh. I believe they did just that. For most of the 14th century, in fact. Sean seems to have oddly missed half the historical precedence about religion the documentary is communicating. Sean doesn't mention all the stuff that happened because the population was very busy attempting to get right with God. Did he not get it? He doesn't mention the massacre of Jews who were accused of poisoning wells.

Sean continues by referencing Numbers 16:21-29  and rebellion against Moses. Slandered him and accused him of taking too much on himself. "Separate yourselves, that I may consume them."
Here's the scripture:
20 And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.
22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
24 Speak unto the congregation, saying, Get you up from about the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.
25 And Moses rose up and went unto Dathan and Abiram; and the elders of Israel followed him.
26 And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of their's, lest ye be consumed in all their sins.
27 So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little children.
28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord hath not sent me.


The first part:
2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord?


So apparently Sean must recognize that this kind of applies to himself?

Sean goes on this way for 2 hours. His point seems to be one more rationale on why his group should blow off all their family and friends. One more reason why God tells him personally that they must isolate from the rest of the world.

 

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