Church of Wells/YMBBA Ministries

You are not logged in. Would you like to login?

1/24/2014 3:16 am  #11

Re: Dogmata

About halfway down the page, there's a sound file - "Hate Your Family?" (Sean Morris). Worth listening. This is his explanation of why they do what they do. They do "real Christianity" while they rest of us have "imaginary" Christianity.

SLANDER = The Happy Lot of True Christians

                            We Are SLANDERED - "We Cut Off Our Families"

In the sight of God, I am compelled to inform you all of the truth concerning the aforementioned slander. Of those who are our (The Church of Wells) earthly families, there are more parents who are in good relationship with us than those who are against us. Approximately 6-10 families, primarily, have been the leaders of this slanderous revolt against the biblical Christ, and their greatest power is slander...only it is under the guise of religious zeal that we (their children), are not properly honoring our fathers and mothers. Nevertheless, it is they who are not honoring God and His gospel, and it is when men experience the miraculous, instantaneous, and sudden regeneration of God's saving grace, consequentially, a spiritual division is created (and whether or not a physical one comes, this is determined by how each parent responds to a gospel-salvation experience in their children. See The Doctrine of Judgment and The Absolute Lordship of Jesus Christ for more details). 

                                             Number of Parents in good relationship = 50
                                            Number of Parents who are "against us" = 35

There are more parents who are with us, in good relationship, than those who are against us. By "against us", I mean, they behave in unreasonable contention and anger which disrupts the sweetness of the familial bond. The source of this anger is their utter refusal to be reasoned with according to the scripture, and are rather bent to argue based upon what they feel, think, and rationalize (what the scriptures condemn to be "worldly wisdom"). This is a great dilemma for us to endure, but it is no "new thing" or "new experience" for this generation, which is, shockingly, on the eve of the Anti-Christ's rise to power. 



1/26/2014 12:55 am  #12

Re: Dogmata

Moved here from Q&A thread.

More doctrine.

Rudy Wiegand, October 7

"Martyrdom, already in early Christian times, appealed to believers intent on doing great things for Christ. Christians have venerated martyrs, the dates of whose executions grew into a calendar of saints, and wearing a martyrs' halo is still extremely popular. But martyr's halos do not come in the mail. Real martyrs for Christ do not wear halos. They only carry crosses. Most people, even Christians, quickly discredit and forget these martyrs. Real martyrs suffer persecution, not like "great heroes of the faith" but like eccentrics and fools. Ordinary people usually consider them fanatics. Does that disappoint or alarm you?
Do not worry. If you are a typical Western Christian you will probably never face persecution of Biblical proportion. You will never have to be a real martyr for Christ.
From “The Secret of the Russians”
But if you are not typical - if you choose to be a "weed that floats upstream" - you may want to know the secret by which Russian Christianity survived through a thousand years of suffering. To all who long for freedom from this world's things and fellowship with the Infinite, we present this book with a prayer that your longings may lead to eternal reality."


This is from The Russians' Secret, by Peter Hoover.
Peter Hoover. eBook in pdf format.
The book synopsis reads:
"Martyrdom, by Ignatius' time, already appealed to believers intent on doing great things for Christ. The early Christians venerated marytrs, the dates of whose executions grew into a calendar of saints, and wearing a martyr's halo is still extremely popular. But martyr's halos do not come in the mail.
A great amount of persecution faced by Christians today results not from what they believe, but from what they own, and from where they come. Missionaries in poor countries lose their possessions, and sometimes their lives, because people associate them with foreign wealth. 
Other "martyrs" lose their lives in political conflict. But does having our vehicles and cameras stolen, out children kidnapped, or being killed for political "correctness," assure that we have "witnessed for Jesus" (martyr means witness, Rev. 6:9, 12:17, and 19:10)? 
Real Martyrs for Christ do not wear halos. They only carry crosses. Most people, even Christians, quickly discredit and forget these martyrs. Real martyrs suffer persecution, not like "great heroes of the faith" but like eccentrics and fools. Ordinary people usually consider them fanatics. Does that disappoint or alarm you? 
Do not worry. Reading this book about Russia's "underground" believers will assure you that is you a typical Western Christian you will never face persecution. You will never have to be a real martyr for Christ. 
Only if you are not typical - if you choose to be a "weed that floats upstream" - you may want to know the secret by which Russian Christianity survived through a thousand years of suffering."

Get it right, Rudy.
So, who's Peter Hoover?
Peter Hoover is an author familiar to many conservative Christians of Anabaptist and similar heritage in the United States, Canada and western Europe. He is a member of the Rocky Cape Christian Community in Tasmania, Australia. He has an email newsletter. 
He was born in Canada, but moves regularly ("Peter is more a citizen of the entire globe. In addition to Canada, he has lived in Mexico, Costa Rica, United States, Chile, and Australia.") He appears to follow his in-laws' lifestyle, from a Mennonite colony in Durango, Mexico. His mother-in-law lived in 20 different places in four countries before settling in Australia.
I enjoyed reading some bits of the newsletters. Unfortunately, Peter had a brain tumor a couple of years ago. Fortunately, they have no problem with regular conventional medical care and he had a good outcome after surgery.

Peter had the privilege of appearing on Dr. Phil's show to prop up his Hutterite brethren. Here's a summary from the Hutterites' website: 

Elmendorf Christian Community and the Mike Hari Case

The Story
Elmendorf Christian Community, and especially Peter Hoover, recently featured prominently on the Dr. Phil Show, in a story entitled "Missing." This show is part of a series which chronicles the search for Michael Hari and his two daughters, Mollie and Allene, who fled to Belize a year ago during a custody dispute between Michael and the girls' mother. It describes how Harold Copus, a private investigator hired by the Dr. Phil Show, learned that Michael Hari had had connections with Peter Hoover and Elmendorf, and how Dr. Phil's team arrived at Elmendorf to question Peter, followed by his appearance on the show with Dr. Phil and the missing girls' mother, Michelle Hari. Eventually, Peter succeeded in contacting Michael, who was living in an Old Order Mennonite community in Belize, and arranged a meeting between Michael and Harold Copus, which led to the girls' return to the U.S. and their reunion with their mother.

Some viewers seemed to be under the impression that this show was an attempt to publicize the case so that the public could help in the search for the missing girls. That is impossible, since the girls were already reunited with their mother weeks before the first segment aired. Remember also that untold hours of video footage from several cameramen were edited into a package that could be presented in a reasonable amount of time, hold viewers' attention, and leave them with the overall impression the producers desired. For example, the initial interview between Harold Copus and Peter Hoover was hours long and, unedited, would have consumed the entire time allotted to the story. You may be sure that the excerpts included in the final show were carefully chosen.

The story seems to have generated much confusion, as well as horror and outrage, among viewers of the show, some of whom failed to grasp the sequence of events in the story. The following is an attempt to clear up some of the common misconceptions people have been left with after watching the show. As a community with a lifestyle quite different from mainstream society, we are aware that many people will always be uncomfortable with what we stand for. We do not feel the need to demand a fair hearing or insist on our side of the story being given equal credit in cases like this. The truth always vindicates itself. However we believe the public deserves the opportunity to hear from all parties involved, giving everyone the freedom to weigh the facts and reach informed conclusions of their own.

Who's Who
Michael Hari is not, and has never been, a member of Elmendorf or any Hutterite group. Until his disappearance, he was attending a Brethren church, an Anabaptist denomination with no cult connections or reputation for criminal activities. The community where he and his daughters lived in Belize is not Hutterite, as claimed on the Dr. Phil website, but is part of an extremely traditional Mennonite group, which preserves its unique culture by limiting contact with the outside world and avoiding modern technology. Churches of this tradition do not engage in kidnapping or mind control, and are entirely peacable and harmless.

The only time Michael Hari spent at Elmendorf was a single overnight visit, approximately three years before he went into hiding. Peter Hoover, at the time the recent investigation took place, was a member of Elmendorf, and shared some leadership responsibilities, but was not the primary leader. (As a Canadian citizen who was in the U.S. on a temporary visa, Peter would not even have been a candidate for a permanent position within the community.) Peter appeared on the Dr. Phil Show simply because he was the focus of the investigation and he was the one invited to appear.

Elmendorf's only connection with the disappearance of Michael Hari and his girls was a telephone conversation between Michael Hari and Peter Hoover. In this conversation, Michael, who at that time had legal custody of Mollie and Allene, confided in Peter that he was considering dropping out of society to escape the pressure he felt his ex-wife was placing on the girls to compromise their personal religious convictions. Michael also feared that Michelle was lying to the authorities about him and might succeed in gaining custody of the girls. Peter, as he openly admitted to the investigators, advised Michael to do whatever he thought necessary. Michael did not tell Peter or anyone else at Elmendorf where he went.

The "Bust"
On their unannounced arrival at Elmendorf, Harold Copus and his team obviously found conditions quite different from what they had expected. While Harold and the camera crew went inside to talk to Peter, several officers parked their cars across the community exits. No doubt they found the blocking assignment a dull affair, for no one was hiding anything and therefore no one had any reason to attempt an escape. At no time did the team encounter opposition in their work. The cameramen were welcomed to return, received a tour of the farm, and stayed to share a meal with us in the communal dining hall.

Elmendorf's Role
From the start, the investigators found Elmendorf ready to assist in mediation, although neither Peter nor Elmendorf were involved in hiding Michael or his daughters. As it turned out, the two Hari girls were safe and happy, but they and their father were living in an extremely remote location, miles from the nearest phone service or post office. Without the aid of Peter Hoover and others, who went to immense personal inconvenience to contact Michael and arrange a meeting between him and the team, it is quite likely that the girls would still be missing. In fact, after learning to know us, Harold Copus actually contacted us about the possibility of placing the Hari sisters at Elmendorf temporarily, until the courts could decide which of parents were qualified to keep them.

Some viewers of the Dr. Phil Show were offended at statements by Peter in which he appeared to be setting conditions for Michelle to meet in order to see her daughters again. It seems many people misinterpreted these statements as requirements made by Elmendorf for the release of the missing girls. In fact, since Elmendorf was not harboring the three and had no control over their movements, Peter was simply predicting what it would take to convince Michael to meet with him and the investigator. No one, including Peter, would get a chance to see the girls unless Michael could be guaranteed that his daughters would be treated with dignity and respect for their religious convictions. That guarantee was eventually granted, and only then did Michael appear.

Let's Be Mature
We ask everyone to remember that all parties involved were concerned for the well-being of the Hari sisters. Their father took them into hiding because he felt that values he and his daughters held precious were in jeopardy. Anyone who assisted him did so from a genuine, if misguided, desire to do what was best for Mollie and Allene. Michelle Hari was no doubt motivated by that same desire as she worked to trace and retrieve her daughters. There are no villains in this case. However, we hope that anyone involved in the case who claims to care about the girls will demonstrate this by giving them the freedom to practice their religious convictions without interference, now that they have returned unharmed.

The Law of the Land and the Christian's Allegiance
We wish to reaffirm that we believe in compliance with the laws of the land. We feel privileged to live under the freedoms which the U.S. government protects, and we are in no way anti-government. However, history amply demonstrates that even the best government is fallible, occasionally demanding actions contrary to the consciences of its citizens. If this happens, we simply try to follow the example of Jesus, who calmly carried out the will of God, in the face of threats and slander, while forbidding his followers to lift a sword in his defense. Like him, we do right, and should our government attempt to deny us that privilege, we will continue doing right and face the consequences without resistance.
We are citizens of God's kingdom, and our ultimate allegiance is to him. Wherever God is obeyed above all else, war, oppression, and hatred end and there is peace on earth. Regardless of what happens to us, we are committed to working with Jesus to bring this peace to our world.


3/27/2014 1:19 pm  #13

Re: Dogmata


11/04/2014 12:27 am  #14

Re: Dogmata

Here's a list of acceptable sins:


Board footera


Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum

©2012-2018 all rights reserved.

This is a conversation, an open dialogue, in the tradition of Free Speech. The purpose is to promote independent investigation, public debate and dialogue on cult and mind control issues critical to our social and individual well-being. Statements made reflect the writer's opinion. This forum acts to provide a space for electronic medium of information transfer, with the explicit understanding that each user will independently evaluate it and carefully make up his or her own mind as to its factual accuracy and usefulness. Independent individuals, organizations, authors, researchers, academicians and contributors may be exercising constitutional rights of petition, free speech, participation in government, or freedom of religion in researching, evaluating and freely discussing any matter. These discussions or statements may be constitutionally-protected opinions, speculation, allegations, satire, fiction, or religious beliefs or religious opinions of independent individuals, organizations or authors and as such, may or may not be factual.