Church of Wells/YMBBA Ministries

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9/28/2013 3:32 pm  #21

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

Hello Everyone,

I am brand new to this forum, found it via the Catherine Groves controversy.
I don't want to get into an arguments, hence I have not posted on any of the threads, but I would like to perhaps help dispel a lot of the slander that I'm seeing all over the internet including here and especially the Pray for Catherine Groves Facebook page.

I have known the elders of the Church of Wells since 2009.  Not extremely well, but well enough to have a fairly good grasp of their characters, where they've come from and what they believe.  Two good friends of mine that I have known for years married two of the elders and I have since met and become friends with various current and past members of the church.

I do not necessarily agree with everything that the church believes and practices, but I have become concerned for my friends after reading all the lies being spread about them and after doing my own research to make sure I had my story straight before passing things on to others, I am doing everything I can to get the truth to anyone who wants to know what is REALLY going on.

I started the Facebook group, Support Catherine Grove.  

If you have any questions that I can answer, I would be happy to share with you as well as I am able.


9/28/2013 4:03 pm  #22

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

One thing that I think a lot of people on both sides of this issue have missed that I would like to bring out is the Quivering Daughters movement....

Within the ultra conservative Christian community, (which is very much it's own culture in many ways) there are some people who believe that the father should be the head of his household, (which I personally agree with as do many Believers in Christ) and daughters should remain under their father's authority until they marry at which time that authority switches over to their husbands.  This is not such a big problem except that some of the people who believe this have taken it to mean that no matter how old a woman is, if she's not married she gets treated basically like a child in her parents' home where the parents make all the decisions.  There is a whole movement of young women waking up to the fact that this is not biblical and they have begun "rebelling" and moving out of the home to learn to function as an adult.

I am very familiar with this thinking, I understand where it comes from and the results far better than most people as I have lived it myself and have many friends with the same experiences to varying degrees.

With that background, it was especially shocking to me when I heard that typical Americans who would normally find it outrageously inappropriate for parents to be controlling the actions and decisions of their 26 year old daughter, seem to have no problem with the Groves attempting to control THEIR 26 year old daughter.  I can often recognize controlling parents fairly easily and I honestly suspected that there might be more to the Catherine Grove story than we think.

After Amy Grove confirmed many of my privately held suspicions, (can't post a link yet to the article) I decided to speak more openly about it myself.  I have seen parents control their children using words like "pray for my son/daughter who is rebelling" or banging the 20-something year old "child" over the head with "God's will" and it is VERY VERY effective manipulation that I am now seeing many who are not accustomed to this type of mind control being sucked into as they listen to Mr. and Mrs. Grove.

Please, please, please do NOT take everything they say at face value!  I've seen it multiple times and it can be very hard to detect if you haven't lived it and even if you have.  Everything is done in the name of protecting the "child" and honoring God, but when you really get down and study it objectively it's just parents scared to let their adult children make their own decisions.  It's their way or the highway and Catherine Grove has chosen the highway.  She's not just seeking the Lord for salvation, which is a huge life step alone, but she's having to deal with two of the most influential people in her life fighting tooth and nail to get her back under their control, her new friends are risking even their lives to protect her basic human rights and between the media and people loving a sensational story instead of stopping to think straight and find out the truth, she's in a pretty tough situation.  It is incredibly hard to go against your parents after you've been raised the way she apparently was without the media and ignorant people getting involved. 

All that to say, please find out the truth before you spread information online and please support Catherine's wishes and not those of her parents.


9/28/2013 4:44 pm  #23

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

1.  YOU know the truth and everyone else is wrong.
2.  The words of Amy Grove (a woman who is mentally and cognitively challenged due to a brain injury) confirmed your suspicions.  Have you talked to any of Catherine's other siblings?  Friends?  Family members?  
3.  You're concerned about your friends because of the "lies" being spread about them.  Are you concerned about the people who've been affected by the lies of your friends?
4.  In your opinion, Mr. and Mrs. Grove are just control freak parents.  And that's wrong.  But if Catherine joins a "church" which is run by control freak men, that's right.

Got it.
I'm not going to waste my time addressing anything else you said.  
Oh and that stain on your upper lip is a lovely shade of purple.

Maybe you could get word to your "friends" that there are several questions posted on this forum for them.

Last edited by Amena (9/28/2013 4:55 pm)


9/28/2013 5:19 pm  #24

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

The best advice that I could give any young adult with regard to gaining independence and control over his or her own destiny would be to get a real education (nursing school would be just one example) and then follow that with a decent job. Control over one's own destiny usually has a significant financial component.


9/28/2013 5:53 pm  #25

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

Feel free to check out the thread specifically created to direct questions to CoW. And please, if you're so close to them - send them here so they may speak on their own behalf. No offense, but others like you have come and gone trying to represent CoW. Not once in the 2-3 years groups like us have been around has an official CoW member or elder addressed our questions. But, you're certainly more than welcome to try.


9/28/2013 7:07 pm  #26

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

Oh, and how have her friends "risked their lives" to protect her? I'm sure that's an entertaining story.


9/28/2013 8:06 pm  #27

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

[Admin edit] before you move from Missouri to Wells, you should do some research of your own. You have been duped.

Last edited by Admin (10/02/2013 11:23 am)


9/28/2013 8:10 pm  #28

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

They have all been duped! Decieved in a big way! This is a spiritual war that needs a lot of prayer and God's power to deliver them!


9/28/2013 9:54 pm  #29

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

Your friends at the CoW would tell you to look at both sides of the issue before making judgment. This is something they have spewed from their mouths over and over to all who might go against their supposed authority.

Let's talk about this for a minute. For those of us that have known the Groves for many years, (I have known them for over 15) the words of the so called elders come as a great surprise. We are concerned for Catherine because we ACTUALLY KNOW HER. We support the Grove family because we ACTUALLY KNOWN THEM. Here you are condeming the Grove family and placing them within this Quivering Daughters movement. You don't know the Groves. You don't know their sacrifices. You don't know their character. You know NOTHING about them. You have NO right to make these judgments concerning the Groves. You also do not know Amy. Those of us who do know Amy know that she had a brain injury that has caused a lasting impact on her life. Andy and Patty have worked hard to care for their children in a Christ-like way. 

Here is should ACTUALLY concern you. 

1. That a group of young men would ordain themselves as elders without any accountability or connection to a local church. (Talk to Don Courville if you would like more information about this) 

2. That this group of young men would set about forming a so-called church that would pick and choose Scripture and teaching to suit their own desires and doctrine. If you actually look at the manifesto and doctrine of the CoW you will find that they their teachings are not consistent. You cannot follow the teachings of Calvin while following the teachings of Wesley. You cannot hand out Paul Washer sermons and Ravenhill sermons. Though they allow theological diversity among what the elders read - there can be no theological diversity among the members of the CoW. The problem is immaturity. 

3. That these elders did not meet the requirements of elders according to the New Testament. They were all NOVICES of the faith. 

4. That these elders would attempt a resurrection on an infant that had passed away instead of contacting authorities. 

5. That these elders would reject any help, counsel or correction from other born again believers. (See Don Courville about this also) 

6. That these elders would intentionally target young un-married women to become part of their organization. 

7. That these elders would intentionally develop a quasi-Biblical 'doctrine' of judment chock full of random Bible verses taken out of context in order to justify their separation from families that are either unwilling to 'sit down and shut up' or give them money. (See the difference between Cindy Williams and Scott Ringnald for this one) 

8. That these elders would develop an organization that thrives on dissolving family ties that, according to God's Word, are pretty important.

9. That these elders would choose to twist young people into a spirit of confusion and fear, questioning the work of the Spirit and thereby quenching the work of the Spirit. 

10. That these elders would go after a brain-injured young woman like wolves surrounding a feast - all in the name of 'defending the gospel.' 

11. That these elders would BETRAY the trust of those that they talk to, working to expose each 'weakness' of a family in order to 'defend the gospel.' Listen up Abigail, if you get any more involved with this group, they will GO AFTER your family. If you decide to turn against this group at any time, they will GO AFTER your family in a very public and UN-CHRISTLIKE way. Christ never 'exposed' other people. Christ never exploited the weak. Christ never wrote 50 page rambling diatribes against Disneyworld, megachurches and family. Christ never produced documentaries in order to 'defend' himself. In fact, Christ never defended himself because he didn't have to. 

12. That these elders employ methods of mind-control, manipulation, fear and the like in the name of 'Biblical conversion.' 

13. That these elders 'guide and shepherd' the process of marriage. You seem concerned that a Father of 26 year old girl would be passionate about protecting and caring for his daughter. Yet, you seem in favor of a 25-28 year old 'elder' of the CoW guiding the process of marriage. This is disgusting and a perversion of what we actually see in Scripture. These men have set up for themselves a kingdom. You, right now, are marching for them. Watch your step! 

14. That these elders have given themselves over to pride instead of humilty. 

15. That these elders have taken the fruits of the 'carnal' (again, see Cindy Williams) while decrying the carnal all at the same time. Its all about the money, money.

16. That these elders would FORSAKE the Ten Commandments and the call that God has on each of us to honor our parents. They even go against their blessed saint Paul Washer on this one Abigial. 

17. That these elders would spread lies, rumors, gossip and slander while decrying others. Here is the difference - all the others are actually speaking TRUTH! 

I'm sure we will talk more. You would do well to actually look into the issue. You are ignorant of what is actually going on. Your ignorance may land you in Wells, Texas - married to one of the few single guys left in the CoW. 

Think for yourself. Think and use the mind that God has graciously gifted you with. The community of Christ does not have things to hide, as the CoW has. The community of Christ does not have to defame other people in the name of the gospel. The community of Christ does not have to exploit the weak. Seek the truth and the truth will set you free. The truth will not force you to Wells, Texas or into a marriage or into separation from your family. The truth will SET YOU FREE. 

Last edited by Admin (10/02/2013 11:24 am)


9/28/2013 10:20 pm  #30

Re: Friend of CoW/Judy Booker Testimony [combined]

To concernedhere:  Very well said.


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