Church of Wells/YMBBA Ministries

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9/10/2013 1:51 pm  #91

Re: The Grove Controversy

Good call. Posting in 'Food for Thought' thread.



9/10/2013 4:27 pm  #92

Re: The Grove Controversy

September 10, 2013

Church of Wells: Feud prompts first communication from Church of Wells

Ben Tinsley 
Jacksonville Daily Progress

WELLS — Following are communications to the media from Church of Wells Elder Sean Morris, which to date are the only public statements from this group:

• September 7, 2013: (To area reporters) “We have heretofore kept silent about vital information which greatly affected the course of our decisions regarding how to counsel Catherine Grove concerning her relationship with her parents, Andy and Patty Grove. This information would justify much of our caution and carefulness when, in contradiction to his, the Groves desire to oversimplify the situation and make us appear to be as madmen.

We have, generally speaking, kept silent about this information because we have not wanted to defame the Groves unnecessarily, we have not wanted such information of this kind (because it is a shame to even speak of it) to go public for the world to gossip about … nevertheless, because of Patty Groves shameless audacity to accuse us we are compelled to speak forth on this matter. She has pushed it this far, and we believe that this information needs to be made public.

Patty has recently made me, Sean Morris, look outrageous and madly bent on any means of fabrication, specifically when (at the Town Meeting), she announced to the congregation of people how shameful it is that I associated the past of Catherine Grove to be dangerously affected by Satanic Worship. The entire sentence as it was written in the Lufkin Daily news states: “When the whispers from the townspeople grew to a low roar, Patty Grove said, “I am very upset because (Church of Wells elder) Sean Morris called my daughter a Satan worshiper. It is not OK that you’re letting him speak about my daughter.”

• September 8, 2013: (To area reporters) “To those of you who got my email and responded to the information fast enough, you may have seen the Facebook page before it was taken down. It was taken down because the Grove family is trying to hide the Satanism of their daughter (Amy Grove). To those of you who have seen photographs of Catherine Grove, you may have noticed a resemblance with the lady on the FB page.

That was Catherine's sister, Amy Grove. In my previous email I had explained (yet again) another way in which Patty and Andy are slandering and misrepresenting the situation...well, Catherine lived with Amy for approximately two years and has had trailing spiritual side effects ever since then. If you spend any good length of time on Amy's Facebook page, you will see how Satanic it is. It contains some of the most terrifying and evil things I have ever seen in my life.

…  I got on the Facebook page the night before she took it down because I was preparing to contact you all. At the time I sent you the former email, the link was still active and the page was still up. Even though it is now taken down, I have saved screen shots of the Facebook page (with the Facebook banner and all to prove that it comes from her FB page), photographs which display what I have reported to you now, etc... Most of this was recovered through cached internet files that I viewed from the night before.”

• September 9, 2013: (Email conversation with Ben Tinsley, Jacksonville Daily Progress, who has asked them for an interview regardless of the aborted press conference) “Getting caught in a den of reporters without the Facebook page as evidence of what I would be saying … that is a position which any reasonable person would avoid (and I already knew that the Patty would be covering it up and lying about it, so I knew I needed evidence).

The satanism on that page was so evil and vile … I could be incriminated myself if I had no evidence to prove it. I was not going into that conference without every reporter seeing for themselves what I would be speaking about, for I know they would not believe me if I were to tell them. God knows I was not playing power games … most of the reporters were not able to look at the Facebook page before it was taken down. Your editor should be asking himself the question, “why was the Facebook page taken down?”

If you were in our situation (and you were innocent), what would you have done? Did you see the Facebook page before it was taken down? Also, have you listened to the recordings which we have made on our website in response to the accusations of the Groves? I am sure you would not trust us if you did not listen to these … the slanders are just too many.

I plan to spend the day in prayer and study of Scripture, and in this time I will consider what we are going to do.

Also, we are waiting to hear back from other reporters whose trust we have, one of which may be posting an accurate representation of the facts. Our decision to go through with your request will depend upon what we hear back from this reporter. May God have mercy.”

- Open comment section -


9/10/2013 4:33 pm  #93

Re: The Grove Controversy

Church and parents wage war of words

Ben Tinsley 
Jacksonville Daily Progress

WELLS —  Both sides say the other is lying. The parents of Catherine Grove of Arkansas contend the Church of Wells is a cult holding their daughter in thrall. Officials with the church counter that Grove is a former Satanist they are trying to help retrain in the ways of the church.

The Church of Wells first attracted media attention in May 2012, when a three-day old baby girl died within the congregation and the parents waited 15 hours after her death to call 911.
Ultimately, an autopsy found that the baby died of natural causes, although the Cherokee County Sheriff's De-partment investigation into the death was never formally announced as closed.

But none of the church elders made any formal statement to the media about the youngster's death.

In July, Catherine Grove of Arkansas was apparently reported missing. A week later Catherine Grove phoned her parents and told them she was fine and would be staying with the congregation of the Church of Wells.
The parents followed, traveling to Wells – where they have conducted a campaign to promote their belief their daughter is the captive of a cult. They apparently are trying to  convince her to come home with them.

The Groves have effectively provoked the first public comment from the church. Sean Morris went as far as to send mass emails rebutting their statements and calling for a 3 p.m. Sunday press conference at the group's “Church House.”

“The Groves desire to oversimplify the situation and make us appear to be as madmen,” said an apparently-exasperated church elder Sean Morris. “We have, generally speaking, kept silent about this information because we have not wanted to defame the Groves unnecessarily, we have not wanted such information of this kind – because it is a shame to even speak of it – to go public for the world to gossip about.”

Parents Patty and Andy Grove have conducted a very public, see-saw argument with the church that has spilled dramatically into public forums such as  Facebook, the church's website, and even into a recent town hall-style meeting.

A Jacksonville Daily Progress reporter attempted to contact Patty and Andy Grove about the issue on Sunday, just before the press conference was supposed to take place. The Groves had sent a flurry of emails requesting to discuss the issue.

However, Morris cancelled the press conference only hours before it was supposed to take place. And by the time the reporter reached Andy Grove by phone he declined to discuss the situation. 
“I guess the only thing to say is 'sorry to have wasted your time,'” he said.

When asked why the press conference was cancelled, Sean Morris contended the Groves family removed a Facebook page that contained evidence that Catherine Groves had been somehow involved with Satanism. 
“Getting caught in a den of reporters without the Facebook page as evidence of what I would be saying… that is a position which any reasonable person would avoid,” he said in an email. “The satanism on that page was so evil and vile … I could be incriminated myself if I had no evidence to prove it.”

On Monday, Morris said he planed to spend the day in prayer and study of Scripture, so he can figure out if the church will speak to the media. 

Authorities have not confirmed that there is any investigation into the group. Cherokee County Sheriff’s Department Capt. John Raffield was out of the office and unavailable for comment Monday.


9/11/2013 12:56 am  #94

Re: The Grove Controversy

I'm feeling very concerned for the Groves because of a post Andy made on the Pray For Catherine page.


9/11/2013 3:54 am  #95

Re: The Grove Controversy

September 10, 2013

Law Enforcement: Church of Wells parishioners have not broken any laws in regard to an Arkansas woman whose parents have accused them of holding her in thrall

However, baby death remains under investigation.

Ben Tinsley 
Jacksonville Daily Progress

WELLS — Parishioners of the under fire Church of Wells — who the parents of an Arkansas woman allege are holding their daughter in thrall — have broken no laws in regard to that situation as far as local law enforcement is concerned.

In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever that Catherine Grove, 26, was kidnapped or is being held against her will — a fact Cherokee County Sheriff's Department deputies verified three times by speaking to her away from the rest of the Wells congregation with whom she is currently staying, Cherokee County Sheriff's Capt. John R. Raffield explained Tuesday.

“There is nothing illegal about it,” the captain said. “We have explained this to the family and other people. We can no more continue to question members of their church about this than we could pull parishioners out of a Methodist church, a Baptist church, or a Seventh Day Adventist Church and tell them, 'Your parents are really worried this church is filling your head with nonsense.'”
The Cherokee County Sheriff's Department has investigated the situation because Wells does not have its own police force.

On Tuesday, Patty Grove revisited some of the statements that have been attributed to her in other media, including the use of the term "cult" to describe the church and "kidnap" to describe the situation.
"We are not saying she was kidnapped," she said. "But we are saying that we do not know what is going on behind closed doors and that is not OK."
The term "cult" was used by some "kids we met in town," and was not a characterization by the Groves themselves, she alleged.

Meanwhile, while there will be no further investigation into the alleged Catherine Grove kidnapping, authorities are still reviewing the circumstances behind the May 2012 death of a three-day-old baby girl whose parents — members of the church's congregation — waited 15 hours after her death to call 911. An autopsy found that the baby died of natural causes, but that investigation never closed.

Back to the Catherine Grove case, it essentially began in July, when Grove fell off her parents' radar for a week. She then telephoned them, letting them she was all right but adding she would be staying with the congregation of the Church of Wells for the immediate future.Patty and Andy Grove quickly followed, traveling to the small Cherokee County town of Wells — population 790 as of the 2010 census. The Groves contacted area reporters and initiated what was essentially a public relations campaign against the church to promote their belief their daughter is "under the control" of the elders of the church.
"They are in control of what Catherine is doing and where she is going," her mother reiterated Tuesday. "We are not saying she is being held against her will. They are influencing her not to talk to her family. If they really loved Catherine they would want her to talk to her family and friends."

Elders with the Church of Wells contend Catherine Grove is a former Satanist and that parishioners are trying to help retrain her in the ways of the church. Church elder Sean Morris went so far as to call press conference to elaborate Sunday, but canceled it before it could take place. In an email distributed to the media on Tuesday, Church of Wells Elder Sean Morris said the Groves are very manipulative — despite accusing the church of themselves being “master mental manipulators” of the situation.
“Ever since the Groves have been here they have hidden the past of Catherine and (Catherine's sister) from the town,” Sean Morris said. “When I have tried to mention to some people about these horrific complexities which greatly changes this situation, these people went to the Grove only to hear them deny it with shameless confidence …”
Patty Grove unequivocally denied that anyone in their family is, or ever has been, involved in anything Satanic. "We have nothing to hide," Patty Grove said repeatedly. "Catherine has nothing to hide."

Sean Morris repeated his allegation from a previous email— that Patty and Andy Grove continually oversimplify this situation to portray church members as something they are not: members of a cult.
“All the while they cover up that one of their daughters is a practicing witch, shaman, satanist, etc. who is married to a man who is a male witch,” Sean Morris said. “ … The Groves are deceiving the town, and the town needs to hear about this. They will not believe it unless they see it themselves.”

Capt. Raffield said he worries any further questioning of Church of Wells members or Catherine Grove without concrete justification might just encroach constitutional rights.
"We have tiptoed right up to the line of violating constitutional rights and might go over it if we continue," the captain said. " … Now, if we see her walking down the street with black eyes and a broken leg we will definitely do a welfare check. But there comes a point where this literally becomes harassment and can't continue to do that … This isn't a thin line — it's a pretty broad line of where law enforcement can and can't go."
Legally, the church has complained about the behavior of the parents at least once. Representatives of a store in Wells that is owned by the church called authorities for help at one point when the parents are alleged to have trespassed there, Raffield said.

Patty Grove acknowledged there were criminal trespass charges of some sort and vowed that she and her husband are "not going to go to jail or prison" as a result.
"There are three main things that we are extremely alarmed by," she said Tuesday. "One, the statement by the church elders on July 18 that we, her parents, wanted to 'kidnap our daughter and subvert her from their faith.' Two, that we cannot contact Catherine by cell phone and we have not talked to Catherine by herself at all and, three, alarming statements in the 'Doctrine of Judgment'."

In regard to the investigation into the death of the three-day-old, the sheriff's department and the Cherokee County District Attorney's Office are still reviewing the case.
"I can tell you there is some active stuff going on with that," Capt. Raffield said. "Whether that results in criminal charges, who knows? There have been similar cases across the country in recent rears where couples were called out for not providing medical treatment for their children, — where they elected to pray over a child. Some of those cases have been successful. Others have not."

Jacksonville Daily Progress Editor Amy Brocato Pearson contributed to this report.



9/11/2013 8:43 am  #96

Re: The Grove Controversy

Translation: Law enforcement feels that their hands are tied with regard to Catherine. But now that the heat is on (and that might affect opportunites for the sheriff or prosecutor to be re-elected - anybody know if that is soon?), they will throw out the "bone" that the infant's death is still under investigation.

Oh, and the "elders" (24 years old, I believe I read with regard to Gardner - yeah, right, elder) are lying liars who lie. When not in direct manner, in the indirect manner of manipulating conversations to give the impression that they choose to give.


9/11/2013 9:15 am  #97

Re: The Grove Controversy

At the beginning of the video when the reporter asks Gardner about Catherine's cell phone he immediately reaches into his pocket to retrieve a phone.  He might as well have raised his middle finger to the Andy and Patty and to the rest of us because that's what if felt like he did.  How convenient for them that Catherine's phone broke.



9/11/2013 9:56 am  #98

Re: The Grove Controversy

I thought the same thing.. why in the world did he grab for his phone at the mention of Catherine's?  That is such a guilty conscience move...


9/11/2013 9:57 am  #99

Re: The Grove Controversy

Broke phones go straight to voicemail Mr Jakey poo... This one IS infact disconnected.


9/11/2013 10:08 am  #100

Re: The Grove Controversy

TakeWellsBack wrote:

How convenient for them that Catherine's phone broke

That wasn't even a veiled lie.

Lying liars who lie.


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