Church of Wells/YMBBA Ministries

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9/02/2013 6:13 pm  #1

The Grove Controversy

Oh my. The Church of Wells sets the record strait (pun intended).

A Q&A session by audio. Recorded messages. Here's Ryan Ringnald and Joy Courville Ringnald, addressing the question:
 Do we teach that you cannot smile and are supposed to be "heavy and down", that you must put your hands over your ears, and that you can only listen to the elders of this church?

"Y'all are forsaking charity..."
If you can stick with it, Ryan winds up at about 17:00. They are totally throwing Catherine under the bus. Ryan says that on Sunday, Catherine asked to speak to her parents alone and the Groves refused because they believe Jake Gardner put a curse on the house. Yeah. That's what he says.

Controversial Questions Answered

 What was our first meeting with the Groves like? Did we merely "cross our hands" and give them the cold shoulder as they imply?

 Do we "pronounce biblical curses"? And did we to Andy and Pattie Grove?
 Did we condemn everyone to hell the night of the demonstration in front of our church meeting house?
 Do we hate our families? Must we "spiritually murder" them to be saved?

They added more: 

 What is the real issue?

1) What is biblical conversion and why is it relevant?
2) Our Behavior vs. The Groves' Behavior
3) The Groves' Real Intent

Last edited by Hythlodaeus (9/03/2013 1:29 am)


9/02/2013 8:25 pm  #2

Re: The Grove Controversy

In my view, it is not that Jake spoke a curse on his own house. I believe the Groves feel there is a curse on his house due to Jake's allowance of false doctrine in his house. I believe they did not want to enter the environment of the house because they felt it to be a dangerous place where demons are active and lurking for prey. That is, IMHO, a good example of wise discernment, on their part.

God's people must not be afraid of demons. The blood of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, has overcome the power of demons. Yet, God's people may choose not to enter a den of demons due to their lack of having peace from God to do so. If they walk in the Spirit, as they should, they must heed the warnings of God's Spirit. When such is the case, their response is not from fear; rather, they are obedient to God who warns them, and obedience is of utmost importance.

Here, we see the results of misunderstandings. Ryan's words "somehow Jake put a curse on that house [his own house]" is Ryan's assumption to explain why the Groves' refusal to come to that house and talk with Catherine. I suggest it is a false assumption, and I suggest the truth is closer to what I described above.


9/02/2013 8:40 pm  #3

Re: The Grove Controversy

We don't know anything about it. What we know as fact, is that Ryan said that.
I DID hear Ryan Ringwald say that with my own ears, so I'm quite comfortable. I did not hear the Groves say that. I did not hear Jake Gardner say that. 

     Thread Starter

9/02/2013 9:58 pm  #4

Re: The Grove Controversy

Where did this link come from? Does the journalist and TV station know of this?


9/02/2013 10:32 pm  #5

Re: The Grove Controversy

4everfaithful wrote:

Where did this link come from? Does the journalist and TV station know of this?

The link is in post #1.

It's on the Church of Wells website.


9/02/2013 11:15 pm  #6

Re: The Grove Controversy

"I DID hear Ryan Ringwald say that with my own ears, ..."  Sure, and I heard the recorded message, too (all of it). My stated opinion (above) is simply my effort to help us see possibilities. Now we need facts, in order to come to the true reality of the situation that occurred. Hence, we need volunteers to pipe up and say what they know to be the facts, or we need a fact-finder to investigate it.

When members of CoW make their various claims, we need not be convinced their claims are correct and factual. For instance, they claim false churches exist all across America, as in almost 100% of all churches are the false ones and they claimed last year that theirs was the only true church they knew about. There are certainly false churches spread all across America, and I cannot number how many there are, but I have been to several true churches during the past year or so, and I did not go to Texas to find them.

I heard what Ryan said, but I think he either failed to get the facts before he spoke or he conveniently twisted facts to fit the picture he was trying to portray (a picture showing they as "good" and Groves as "harsh and despicable people"). I've never met the Groves, but I doubt their character is correctly portrayed in the way Ryan describes them. Only the facts can help me put aside this doubt. I refuse to play along with the game being played by Ryan (and Sean, in his "Catherine Grove Controversy" thingy).


9/03/2013 12:34 am  #7

Re: The Grove Controversy

Why are they not allowing Catherine to talk to people and have her freedom to come and go and walk around outside and interact with the society at large if they do not believe that she is saved? If she is not saved, what are they after? I think this is their "brainwashing" technique and when she becomes completely commited to their cult and, lastly, when she no longer says she wants to go to heaven but just wants to serve Christ, even if she is on her way to hell, then they will say she is saved.


9/03/2013 1:26 am  #8

Re: The Grove Controversy

I heard jake say that she is NOT saved and he doesn't feel The Lord is with her. This is why she is not "free". She is still easily swayed at this point.


9/03/2013 1:30 am  #9

Re: The Grove Controversy

Good point about the churches thing, berryjam. 

     Thread Starter

9/03/2013 1:55 am  #10

Re: The Grove Controversy

A little bit beyond the 1/3 mark of the presentation by Ryan and Joy, Ryan said “God hates those that sow discord amidst brethren.” Later, he indicates he cannot eat with discordant brethren. It seems he implies he is brothers with God's people, yet he also believes the Groves and the protesters are going to hell, so then he contradicts himself, since brothers in the Lord will meet the Lord in heaven. I wish he would stop his lame excuse for turning a deaf ear. It's a major problem connected to the spirit of rebellion.

OK, let's talk about battles.  Prov. 6:16    "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him: "

Pr 6:19  "A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."  These two are the sixth and seventh items in God's list. Now look at two others on the list:  Pr 6:18  "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,"

I know it is so natural and human-like for people like the Groves to seek proper relationships with their daughter, and the people of Wells naturally feel empathy for those parents, especially since they are often not treated with proper respect by the folks in the ymbba group. It is natural and human-like for police to "just do their jobs" and then get along to deal with "the bigger fish they need to fry". It is natural and human-like for Ryan and Sean to defend themselves against what they believe is a false report published by the news agency. It is natural and human-like for the news agency to be mistaken in some parts of their report, while being truthful in other parts ... and all the while let's hope they really intended to provide a 100% truthful report (I am willing to believe they tried their best to do so).

This is a community of humans whom God hopes will learn to get along with one another, and God provides Proverbs (and more) to help guide them. Any one of these people mentioned in my post today could be accused of "swiftly running to mischief". What if some even have hearts that devise wicked imaginations? Justice needs to deal with these things.

Where is the gentleness with one another? Which ones need not be gentle? All must be gentle. Not just gentle words, God asks us to have hearts formed into gentleness, like unto doves.

Do the various ones try, in honor, to prefer one another (Romans 12:10)? This is part of mercy and humility. It prepares the way for justice and peace.

Where is the line crossed into false witnesses speaking lies, versus sincere witnesses speaking what they really believe to be true (but if it is proven to be false and they concede, were they really liars)? When is it sowing discord versus posing legitimate questions so that we can discover the truth and then do justly?

God's Word is written to humans ... humans are quite prone to making errors. So often, human errors are not done intentionally. Where is the mercy? (Yes, sin is sin. Sin is not OK, yet forgiveness can be had by the authority of God's Word, and the repentant heart desires to learn from his mistakes).

Humans are tempted in their weaknesses, yet when their weakness becomes justified as a righteous thing, they should be deemed "stiff-necked". When humans error by intention, they show rebellion against God. Which of the community members have stiff necks?

If any in the community being described above intend to do what God hates, then they may certainly expect His hand of judgment against them. God knows how to judge. If, on the other hand, community members obeyed God, then their dealings cannot be described as "wicked" or "discordant". They may have included unintended errors. That's only human. Gently discuss such matters, show proper respect, be quick to hear and slow to speak, make apologies when revealed faults require it, and get on with life.

The enemies of God will certainly say God's obedient children are discordant against them. God intends warfare of a spiritual nature among men. God's children are said to fight the good fight of faith (I Timothy 6:12). There is no fight if His children do not battle against temptations. James 1:13 says God tempts no man, so therefore temptations come from demonic activity. A proper response is to resist. God's enemies despise that attack which is invoked in the name Jesus the Messiah and by the power of the blood of Jesus the Messiah .... so should God's children just lay low and fail to attack, just because the enemy says "you sow discord among the brethren when you attack us"? Absolutely, they must not fail to attack. What temptation(s) was (were) presented in Wells, against which the Groves and community members felt compelled to attack? Can that be clarified for us by the witnesses?

People in the ymbba group are not enemies against whom God's children should do battle. They are victims of the enemies of God -- victims of demons who are spiritual beings and who must comply with the order of our universe, which is administered by Soveriegn God. Demons can obtain rights (footholds), but God's children shall not grant them any rights. Effective spiritual warfare is entirely biased, granting no rights to demons. All the while, humans must be granted their God-given rights, and when that fails to happen, the demons are automatically granted rights.

Parents have certain God-given rights. Children have certain God-given rights. Government authorities have certain God-given rights. When any steps out of bounds, to deny these rights from being granted to a rightful recipient, God sees it, and judgment will come against the oppressor. Judgment comes in many forms. Demonic oppression is one of them. Sickness may ensue (hmm ... Sean said he was sick, lately).

It seems the gentle people will not demand their rights. They suffer oppression, and they cry out to God for help. They seek to know His will, and they do not hesitate to obey His battle commands. They repent of their wrongs, and they refuse to give ground to deceptive demons seeking to destroy what God ordains as good and right. Families with close relationships are good and right. People who practice sound doctrine are good and right. Faith, hope and love are good and right.


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