Church of Wells/YMBBA Ministries

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4/15/2014 2:13 am  #1

Preethi and Moses David

Preethi David's blog, now turned Church of Wells. This is a bit much. Posted here in original unedited form.


An Open Response to Matt Slick from CARM by Sean Morris

Hello Matt Slick, 

The video above is a prediction that Washer made, I believe, by the Holy Spirit. There are many grievous generalities that you have made in the article you have written, generalities I am willing to answer in specific, but since you have been general...I will give general answers. I am encouraged by your willingness to sit down with us. Indeed, it would be a daunting task to seek to answer specifics via typing. Your willingness to sit down and talk with us demonstrates a willingness to be incorrect with the generalities you have made, and I am grateful for this. We too are willing to be incorrect in our doctrine and practice, if it can be proven by scripture. We welcome Spirit-filled men to approach us in godly fear and love, with correction and concern. My attempt in this email is to show the error of the loose-handed examination process which makes conclusions by generalities, by heathen persecutions, and by speculation. I will attempt to, by God's grace, show the error of generalities by pointing to scriptural truths and scriptural realities. 

With regard to Paul Washer's prediction about the coming persecution: if it is true, then it would be great folly for us to come to conclusions based upon heathen reports, persecutions, or slanders. An approach such as this would have led the common Jew or Greek to deny the 1st Century Jesus Christ of the Bible. He too, and the 1st century Church, were overwhelmed with slander and misrepresentation. And yet, they affirmed that it was a Sovereign appointment by God (Rom. 8:361 Thess. 1:6-72:1-213-163:1-52 Tim. 3:10-121 Cor. 4:8-1715:1929-342 Cor. 4:8-186:4-1011:21-33Heb. 12:3-41 Pet. 2:21-234:1-512-14, etc.). I believe, as Paul Washer seemed to believe judging by the clip above, the Church today is ignorant of how, why, and in what way persecution is going to come upon us as true Christians...but the 1st century Church was not ignorant. For further information which reveals how deceitful the media is, please see this video titled: The Catherine Grove Controversy - "What is the Truth?"

From here onward, I plan to address specific statements you have made in the CARM article. I have separated the statements you made by =smalltopical titles. My answers are following your quotes. 

The Church Cursed & Exclusivity: 
"The Church is very tight knit, and exclusivistic. This makes sense since they teach that they are among the remnant of God's true believers and that the Christian church has been cursed for the past 2000 years. This is problematic because it lays the intellectual foundation to teach a kind of "restored" or "true" teaching of Scripture. However, this does not automatically make them a cult." 

The Church is very "tight knit", you said, but what does this mean? 

Col. 2:2  "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;" 

Col. 2:19  "And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God."

The Church is very "exclusivistic", but what does this mean? 

Rom. 16:17-19  "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil." 

1 Cor. 5:11-13  "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

“From such turn away” – 2 Tim. 3:5 
“From such withdraw thyself” – 1 Tim. 6:5 
Receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed” – 2 John 1:10

See also 1 John 2:19, Jude 3-4, Philippians 3:1-3Matt. 15:13-1423:13Gal. 4:29-311 Thess. 2:16Luke 12:1Matt. 16:611-12, Jude 16, 2 Peter 2:313-1418
3:17, 2 Cor. 6:17-7:1.

Matt, you stated that we teach the Church has been cursed for 2000 years, and that it needs to be restored, but I don't believe you understand what we would mean when we say "cursed". Also the general response that you gave saying, "This is problematic because it lays the intellectual foundation to teach a kind of 'restored' or 'true' teaching of Scripture", is erroneous and exceedingly general. I could point to biblical and extra-biblical Church history to affirm how vital and consistent it was for God-ordained men to arise and accomplish a reformation or restoration of the true meaning of scripture, applying it to their generation. Reformation orrestoration into the true meaning of scripture should not be shunned, scorned, or by title condemned, but the true meaning of scripture should be soundly addressed and applied NO MATTER WHAT. Woe to us if we are no longer subject to scripture, simply because we believe we are correct and standing in the truth right here and now. We can profess that we hold to the ancient truths (of extra-biblical Church history and the biblical witness), but even the Pharisees said they were followers of the true prophets. Christ affirmed how they did "garnish the sepulchres of the righteous" (Matt. 23:29)...this means that they honored them, taught their teachings, claimed to follow them, and by their lives they claimed to rightly represent them. Christ had another word to say about it - "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets" (Matt. 23:29-30). Many teach the truth, but oh! Do we do the truth (seeMatt. 23:2-3)? In conclusion, one should not rebuke and disdain another because he believes a truth from scripture must be restored, but the interpretation of scripture which he is arguing for should be addressed, and either refuted or accepted - anything but this is cult-like. 

Death of Baby: 
"However, it is a concern when medical treatment is not sought for a very young child who is obviously having breathing difficulties. If prayer does not quickly alleviate the problem, then the other God-ordained means of healing via medical attention should be utilized.  The apostle Luke, after all, was a physician and Paul himself even said take a little wine for one's infirmities, (1 Timothy 5:23).  So, seeking medical attention is biblical."

There was red-ish purple-ish color in the baby's extremities, yes, but this was not apparently different than other newborn babies that we have seen. In fact, the mother of the child that died affirmed that her former baby boy, named Levi, had colorful extremities and difficulty breathing, and this information foremost of all did give much reason to think that the child was NOT in any real danger. The Church of Wells does believe in using medical attention, and we are grateful for all beloved physicians out there who can be compared to Luke. Indeed, seeking medical attention is biblical. 

Many Generalized "Suspicions" and a Final Conclusion on the "restored gospel mentality": 

"Accusations of brainwashing have been rampant where at least one set of parents (Andy and Patty Groves) had been prevented from seeing their daughter, Catherine, who gave away everything and joined the group. But, an accusation does not a cult make. Apparently, the daughter does not want to see her parents and she is old enough to make that choice.  This alone does not mean it is a cult. But, as things begin to add up and suspicious behavior becomes more evident, it makes us wonder what is going on.

In an interview with KTRE, Gardner, one of the elders of the church, said... "We have not in the past or ever intend to arrange marriages."  Morris, another elder said, "Everyone in the church has their own possessions, their own homes, has their own bank accounts, the ones that do," said Morris. "So no we don't have all the money and we don't give allowances that is not how this church operates. That's absolutely unbiblical and absurd." These statements are good.  But, what about the following said by Jake Gardner, one of the elders...

"Professing Christianity today overwhelming is a cult because a cult is that which is not found in the written word of God which is born by the thoughts of human beings...And the reason why there is so much ignominy and reproach cast upon us is because we're merely endeavoring to get back to what the Bible says and in a generation that is so far departed from the plain understanding and interpretation of the scriptures that is a cult, someone who is trying to return to simply what the bible is, is labeled a cult and that shows the degeneracy of our age,"

Such a statement usually is born out of a "restored gospel" mentality or the idea that everyone else is wrong except them."

What is "brainwashing", truly? I have never met anyone who has given me a clear answer on this. Our brains certainly are filthy, yes, but we don't need a brain washing but a heart washing. Praise God! This word, "brainwashing", is a common scare tactic that people use who are afraid of or amazed about the converting, changing, and transforming power of real salvation! In fact, the revival experienced near Scotland, in which Duncan Campbell was used, was hindered and brought to an end partly because of a slanderous accusation that Duncan Campbell was hypnotizing people (you can read more about this revival HERE). Woe to us that we accuse the work of the Holy Ghost to be hypnotizing or brainwashing, but in an age when psychology is one of the idol-gods to which this "civilized" and "noble" society does unquestionably subscribe faith to, what are we to expect? How can they explain the power of conversion if, in their worldview, they don't even acknowledge sin, depravity, God, and regeneration? I say again, people don't need a brainwashing but "the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5). That is the truth, and I am not ashamed of it. It is perplexing to me how people give weight to the scare tactic - "brainwashing" - usually nobody knows what it is, how it is done, or anything (I acknowledge that it is a Satanic delusion). And even more so, when those who profess Christianity move and sway with such a scare tactic as "brainwashing" name-calling, I would question if the man has ever been used by God to affect lost souls by the ministry of verbal preaching to strangers. If the man had, he would have seen what it is like for the Spirit of God to blow upon and convert poor, God-hating sons of the devil. Anyone who has seen this in any moderate degree has also waded through the hell that breaks loose to steal that convert from his convictions, i.e., the various persecutors, the baffled friends and relatives, etc. Either they get convicted and repent, or persecute it and slander it (like name-call brainwashing)...this is usually the pattern. Anyone who has personally experienced this would not quickly judge another man or ministry who is named by the tags which are commonly attached to us! Also, Catherine did NOT give away everything to join the Church. Furthermore, Jake's statement is sound and right, and it shouldn't be persecuted. Matt, you said, "such a statement usually is born out of "restored gospel" mentality or the idea that everyone else is wrong except them". I wonder if the reformation in the days of Luther would match up to some of your cult criteria? What about the 1st century Church, point-by-point? Jesus looked a lot like two cults of his day (see Acts 5:34-39) - yes, both He and the apostles were known as cult leaders (Acts 24:5-6)! By God's grace, I am not ashamed of them. So what does this mean? What am I saying? I am saying that generalizations as these are not righteous and sound, they often scare and subvert the simple-minded because it sounds good and reasonable. The question should be, what does the scripture teach in comparison to what the accused teach? What is "usual" does not matter, because today it is unusual for a Church to be biblical, it is unusual for a Church to be experiencing the power of God, it is unusual for a Church to be persecuted, but none of these things were true for the New Testament Churches. Finally, we do NOT believe that everyone else is wrong except us! God have mercy on all the slanderers! 

What is a Cult? 

In one section, Matt, you made a list of the ways you think we are cult-like. You made six points. These six points are your conclusions based upon a Nightline piece and other articles written by heathen men, etc. You said, "Again, it is difficult to make accurate assessments without actual contact with the group, but through the examination of articles written about them and watching the Nightline piece on them, I must say that they definitely have cult-like tendencies." We are certainly being defamed (1 Cor. 4:13), but my entreaty is this: Matt, is it biblical and righteous to publicize and spread abroad your thoughts, interpretations, and conclusions based upon unreliable reports (while having no contact with us, as you said), and all this without first coming to us and reproving us as the scriptures teach (Matt. 18)? What if we are true brothers? If there is any doubt, shouldn't there be longsuffering, instruction (2 Tim. 2:24-26), privacy (Matt. 18:15-17), and interaction (1 Cor. 14:293340, see Acts 15, the entire chapter), before open rebuke? 

In another article that you have written, Matt, I found your understanding of what these six points are. They are listed below, with my answers: 


A.    Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.

As far as the situation of exclusivity, what would David say in the days of his persecution when he was running from Saul? What would the generations of Kings like Asa, Jehoshaphat, Hezekiah, and Josiah say concerning Israel and other professing Jews? What would Judah say about Israel? Is there something wrong with asserting that there are "few true remnants of God's people"? Were these biblical persons I just cited wrong? What about Christ when he used the word "few" (Matt. 7:13-149:3720:1622:141 Pet. 3:20Matt. 24:37-39Rev. 3:4)? Truly, I say this with all gravity, I would be afraid to persecute someone because they affirm that the way of God is found by FEW!

Luke 13:23-30  "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last." 

If we examine the right-standing of God's people by judging in such generalizations as you made, Matt, consider this: with the same generalizations we could condemn Christ, the scriptures, and other historical moves of God in the process...but sadly, the simple-minded don't know this. They are not aware of scripture or history, and when they read something like this, taking a quick read, they can be moved to persecute something neither the writer nor the reader has biblically examined, tried, and found to be false! Reading something like this can do untold harm to the simple-minded. What I mean to say is, it can be a "great fair speech" (Rom. 16:18), if you will, that can greatly sway men to discount, reject, and repel anyone who meets these six points of "cult-like" attributes - even if it is biblical. "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD" (Prov. 17:15). 


A.    Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.

As for "minimization of contact": what are biblical representations and presentations of such behavior? And what would they look like if played out in the midst of a genuine move of God which includes the suffering of persecution and other attacks by spiritual forces of Satan (i.e. false prophets)? What kind of "contact" are we talking about? And what kind of "contact" was the scripture speaking about when it stated such verses in reference earlier in this article, when I addressed "exclusivity"? One such verse is notable and bold, which states: 

2 Cor. 6:14-18  "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." 

What is the point? The point is, these ideas themselves (i.e., "isolation", minimization of contact, exclusivity, etc.) are not to be disdained when in their scriptural and biblical context! Generalizing these attributes would successfully condemn BIBLICAL Christianity, according to the words of scripture. Righteous judgment in such circumstances as this calls for and demands specifics! Even so we are warned, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). And again, "But wisdom is justified of her children" (Matt. 11:19Luke 7:35, see also the argument in Matthew 12:1-8). 

Everyone is led by something (1 Cor. 12:2). Everyone, whether they are saved or unsaved, is controlled by and in slavery to something or Someone. Scripture states, "as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:21). Either sin rules, reigns, and controls the lost man, or Jesus Christ (through Grace) rules, reigns, and controls the saved man! The experience of saving grace discontinues the possibility that the man would, as it is written, "continue in sin" (Rom. 6:115-16). Grace causes the lost man to yield to the Master - Jesus Christ - as a servant to obey Him! "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness" (Rom. 6:16)? Grace forcibly controls lost men so that they become "servants of righteousness" (Rom. 6:18) and "servants to righteousness unto holiness" (Rom. 6:19), when formerly they were "servants of sin" (Rom. 6:20). This experience of grace, in context, is "the gift of God" which is "eternal life" (Rom. 6:23). I am not ashamed of the fact that, "he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant" (1 Cor. 7:22). This being the case, what place have God's ministers? 

Christ is a Ruler, a Monarch, and a King, and His people love to have it so...this is true! By His grace He makes slaves, and shockingly, His slavery is freedom...this is true! But furthermore He had created for Himself a Body through which He maintains His Lordship practically and experientially. God has appointed ministers as "labourers together with God" (1 Cor. 3:9), this also is true; and yet they are incomparable to God. They help and look after the furtherance of faith and grace in the people of God, and in so doing they help the Lordship of Jesus Christ progress into deeper realities - glory to glory - therefore it is written, "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand" (2 Cor. 1:24). All this is true, but according to the sovereignty of God, each individual proves their own burdens (Gal. 6:4-5), will obey or disobey the calling of God on their life which is scripturally revealed, and in the process of time and circumstantial necessity, the Elders do operate as ambassadors and helpers of the rulership of the Ruler - what I mean to say is, they use authority when necessary for spiritual sanctity (2 Cor. 1:231 Cor. 5:3-52 Cor. 2:101 Cor. 4:18-212 Cor. 12:19-13:52 Cor. 4:51 John 2:194:5-6Heb. 13:17). Through the instruction of scripture to the flock, coupled with godly accountability, the "thinking and practices" of the members of Christ are conformed to Christ instead of the world (1 Cor. 2:163:182 Cor. 10:3-6Php. 3:17-214:8-91 Cor. 4:16-21Heb. 13:171 Pet. 5:5-61 Tim. 4:16Heb. 3:12-1310:25Gal. 6:1Jas. 5:19-20,Eph. 4:11-13Acts 2:42-47Rom. 12:1-31 John 4:5-6). Amen. 

Special Knowledge

A.    Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.
B.    The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.

Receiving instruction and knowledge that comes from God, in fact, is the only knowledge of God at all (James 1:53:13-18). Anyone who professes to have "the knowledge of God" (Prov. 2:3-5) - it is for sure: they did not learn it like a heathen man learned chemistry (1 Cor. 2:14John 6:637:16-178:374347Matt. 16:17). I mean to say that it was a revelation from God! For more concerning this, I wrote a blog post called, "Seminary & Seminarian - Do You Pray?". As for the "special knowledge" that is received through the gifts of the Spirit like visions and dreams, I can say that I am not a cessationist, I am NOT a charismatic, I hold the written word of God as the supreme and unrivaled RULE, and I do not aspire to obtain or teach anything that would or could be rightly considered a "new" interpretation of sacred scripture, but only the old ones which are forgotten and destroyed by false prophets. 


A.    The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.

I am not sure what is meant by the phrase, "repeatedly drilled", but I know this: the New Testament pastors and apostles were VERY repetitious (Col. 1:28-292 Pet. 1:12-151 Thess. 2:11-123:10Rom. 15:14-16Php. 3:1-3, Jude 3). The Lord knows that we NEEDED four gospels, not just one - for many reasons. As for our experience in special knowledge (visions, dreams, etc.), I can say that our preaching and pastoral repetition is of the truth found written in scripture; the other forms of revelation cannot even compare to this affirmation. 

Group Think

A.    The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.
B.    There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.

By "policies" which are "handed down" from the "authority", what are these policies? Certainly you are referring to non-scriptural policies...but I don't know of any non-biblical policies that we instruct the people with, hand down to them, or expect them to obey by faith through grace. In the Church of Wells, all who are covered by the blood are accepted equally and wholly, by God's grace, from all different backgrounds, denominations, and non-damnable heretical tendencies, etc. I praise God that we are not a group, but a Church; not a gathering, but a Body; not a collection of doctrines, but a family; not a disconnected, dismembered mess of mishap, but a fitly jointed and biologically connected Body in which every member is NEEDED - a body with one single mind (Php. 1:27)! 

Appearance Standards

A.     Often a common appearance is maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards.

As for appearances, we believe in biblical modesty for men and women. We do NOT teach that women should wear prairie dresses, hair buns, etc., but a few Anabaptists have been converted from their former religion, and they still wear prairie dresses at times. Also, not all are convinced that the covering of the woman’s head is a non-literal head covering in 1 Corinthians 11, so a few women do wear head coverings. We accept them and do not condemn them because this is a non-damnable heresy. It is their personal conviction that they cover their head with a piece of cloth. This is not the teaching of the Church, nor is it what we understand 1 Corinthians 11 to teach. Convictions on makeup change from home to home, family to family, so some wear it and some don't. There is no laid out rule so that all look the same, but we do believe in modesty, meekness, and shamefacedness as the scriptures teach. The men do not all wear short-sleeved shirts, they do not dress alike in any intentional way, they do not wear beards or refrain from beards in any intentional way of rule or anything like that, as all the cults of Anabaptism do. Nevertheless, it does so happen that, when men are dead to the world, don't like the labels of popular apostasy, don't desire to be flashy, and don't desire to live in luxury, they start dressing with modesty and they live with temperance - such a thing can sometimes make men appear similar. The truth is that they just don't care about these things that dazzle others, but by God's grace they are amazed with and in earnest pursuit of Christ - their treasure is in heaven (Matt. 6)! 

Two closing verses that are upon my heart, that deserve due consideration and reflection: 

"Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates" - 2 Corinthians 13:7

 "He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." - Proverbs 18:17 

Is it is possible that “evil communications” of false prophets and carnal men have so inoculated this generation that we cannot discern good from evil and do not walk in the sufferings that the Book of God deems normal? Though our consciences scream that we need Revival, we are incoherent and proud enough to think that we can still judge our own state rightly, divide the word of God wisely, and know His will truly: yet how can we? If we need Revival (or are carnal), how can we know judgment, wisdom, and righteousness? If we are carnal, then it is predominately hidden from us (John 16:121 Cor. 3:1-2Hebrews 5:11-14) and must be taught or exemplified to us, and if we are not fearfully careful, then we will persecute the wisdom of God because it is foolish, be offended at the righteousness of God because of its weakness, and misdefine the awakenings of God as the darkness of the Devil. Jesus said: “And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me” (Matt. 11:6Luke 7:23). Are we in such a condition where we should take heed to the awful warning, "but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise" (2 Cor. 10:12)? 

I appeal to the justice and judgment of Jesus Christ who is alive, who is the King of the Church, who walks in the midst of the Lampstands of God, who is a searcher of hearts and a revealer of secrets: Jesus Christ, would you bring the truth to the light? Would you judge your Church right now…that we might be saved from the Judgment to come? Would you gather all men involved in this public address which has begun on the internet, and would you work mightily and powerfully among us that all might look upon and acknowledge the truth? In Jesus Christ’s Name I pray, for the glory of God the Father in the name of His Son, Amen. 

Matt, we are praying about the next step from here. We trust that, God willing, we will be in contact soon. Until then, our sincere love and prayers are toward and for you. 

Sean Morris on behalf of Ryan, Jake, and the Church of Wells


8/21/2014 10:53 pm  #2

Re: Preethi and Moses David

Preethi, a new recruit in November, married leader Sean Morris in January and is a vested, full-fledged member of the group. In fact, pretty much one of the leaders now. She's a self-identified prophetess.

Initially alarmed (reasonably, in my opinion) and opposed to his daughter joining this group - like everyone else - her father Moses is essentially a de facto member himself now. He did a '180' a few days before the wedding. Why? No one knows. Another mystery. Quite seriously, it's their personal business and none of ours, really. But one can't help but wonder, can one? There is most definitely a real reason. A human reason, not a divine-intervention-type explanation.

There have been a handful of pieces written on this group, internet-based with commenting allowed. Mr. David has single-handedly run interference for the group leaders, serving to engage and offer his opinion to readers and commenters.
On two different website comment sections, Moses posted bits of communication from Sean Morris. All of the "explanation" amounts to nothing more than exaggerated mistruths, based on hyperbole and Christian catchphrases. That "conflict" is because:

1. Family and loved ones of recruits are disappointed that their children aren't more ambitious, with materialistic plans for their lives. They don't want them to live humble, modest lives.

2. Families and friends don't respect a 'calling' to serve God.

3. It's the parents of recruits who did the cutting off, instead of the recruits severing family relationships. [Which makes no damn sense at all, considering that the Church of Wells guidelines and playbook (Sean Morris' Condescenion of God directs the members to sever family relationships because of being "unevenly yoked" and the need to "be ye separate."]

4. Family members are "false Christians," deceived, reject "the truth," in need of salvation, and object to their adult children's salvation.

In a nutshell - if families were to obey God, they'd be in Church of Wells themselves.

     Thread Starter

8/21/2014 11:24 pm  #3

Re: Preethi and Moses David

Things have become very interesting. Preethi posted a monographic letter on her personal blog, "Proclaimed from the Rooftops."

In it, she trash-talks her previous church, New Life, and its associated pastors and lay staff. Names names. Apparently she and her father and brother left "that synogogue of Satan, that place where iniquity reigns, and in which resides idolatry of carnality, false religiosity, meaningless sermons and studies and exploits" under difficult circumstances. She says they were called a "three-person-jury" but doesn't explain why.

She relates how a woman in a different church, "I'll Be Honest," introduced her to Sean Morris and Chris Faulkner, "an ex-Church of Wells member, who is presently a false prophet and deceiver, transformed into an angel of light." Funny how all of 'em are all still friends, though...

This is fascinating. Boy, he's really on their shit-list, isn't he? An "angel of light" is Satan. What did that poor guy do?!

     Thread Starter

8/23/2014 8:22 pm  #4

Re: Preethi and Moses David

"...if these people [Sean Morris, Ryan Ringnald, Jake Gardner] are of God and speak by the Spirit of God, and we choose to resist them, to slander them, to ignore them, or to disregard them, we will find ourselves resisting the Word, Spirit, and work of our very Lord."

Preethi David, October 2013

Cutting ties with family
In my conversation with the elders, it is evident that though many saints have believed that this church cuts off ties with families, it is often the case that the family cuts off ties with the individual who is a part of the Church because of their own resistance to the Word of Christ.

Sword Between Brethren?
One of the very unique attributes of the ministry of the Church of Wells is that it often brings a sword of division among the regenerate. Many use this attribute as means to disqualify their ministry assuming that such discord among brethren cannot possibly be from the Lord. But when we consider the state of the people of God, namely, that many are fallen into a state of slumber, passivity, and slavery to sin, we may readily understand why the Word of God would bring a sword between unrepentant regenerate people and repentant regenerate people. 
As the Sword of the Word of God is delivered to the people of God, they will be unified in the bond of peace ONLY as they heed the voice of the Lord unto repentance and resulting obedience.

When the regenerate refuse to repent, they cannot but be at enmity with the people of God who have sided with the Truth.The people of God are united in the bond of peace precisely because they have conformed their lives to the Word of God and the Image of Christ. But when hardness of heart and unrepentance is present in the midst of our gatherings, yes, there will be division.

“None have followed this [due process] as they ought, but those that have are with us in heart unto this day (as far as my memory goes)” -Sean Morris

     Thread Starter

8/23/2014 8:59 pm  #5

Re: Preethi and Moses David


From Preethi David, Proclaimed from the Rooftops, October 2012

                                             Unity # 6: The Perseverance of the Saints
                                      Theme Song: There is a Fountain Filled With Blood  

Dear Beloved, We are being sanctified right now, all of us who are His chosen people, regenerated by the Spirit and Word.

Jesus promised us that in the last days brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

He told us that we will be hated by all men because of His Name, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matt 10:21-22).

If we do not endure in our faith, we will not be able to endure in the days when God deals with mankind in His fierce, righteous, and just anger against the wicked (Ez 22:14).
We endure through His chosen types of discipline, because in them, God treats us as His own children. What beloved child is not disciplined by his Father? But if we are not being disciplined, we would be illegitimate children and not sons.

All discipline seems sorrowful rather than joyful at the moment, but when we are trained by it, it yields a peaceful fruit of righteousness. 

It is just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict us, and to give us relief when we are afflicted as well as when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire. At this time He will deal our retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not OBEY the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction... 

Do we truly suffer as it has been appointed for us as followers of Christ? God has exhibited the apostles last of all as men condemned to death, a spectacle to the world, to both angels and men. They are fools for Christ’s sake, weak, without honor, hungry, thirsty, poorly clothed, roughly treated, homeless, toiling, and working with their own hands. When they are reviled, they bless. When they are persecuted, they endure. When they are slandered, they try to conciliate. They have become the scum of the world and the dregs of all things, even to this day. (I Cor 4:9-13)

After we are enlightened through the Spirit, we endure a great conflict of sufferings, partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who are so treated.

But we are blessed when we persevere under trial, for when we are approved, we will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him (James 1:12).  Why do we persevere? We pay close attention to ourselves and what we speak, persevering in His Word, for as we do this we will ensure salvation for ourselves and our hearers (1 Tim 4:16).

We endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the Gospel of Christ (1 Cor 9:12). We imitate one another as we endure and share in the sufferings of Christ. We endure all things FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO ARE CHOSEN, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory (2 Tim 2:10)


     Thread Starter

8/24/2014 1:26 am  #6

Re: Preethi and Moses David

Quotes from Preethi's writings illuminate some of what she thinks.

The Fruit of the Church of Wells
We are surely in the latter days, and all who have sought and perceived the heart of the LORD see that He is grieved, not for the dead bones of the unconverted alone, but for the impalement of His bride: her state of Spiritual slumber and carnality.

Evangelism: Contrary to popular opinion, there are souls being saved in our midst! Souls do seek the LORD at the present time as a result of the revelation of Truth from within this place. Though the violence of the masses and the gates of hell are opened against this place, she finds favor from the blind, poor, needy, destitute, sick, and lonely from among the lost. These lost do stream to this place because Christ is among His people here!

Ingathering of the Remnant: Just as all those who were distressed, discontented, and indebted gathered around King David at the Cave of Adullam, the starved, scattered, lonely, and dissatisfied remnant does one-by-one find its way to this place. It is starting to happen!

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; all the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. (Zech 12:10-14) This is blessed familial mourning without which there would be certain damnation!

Perserverance of the Saints. An 81-page book by Preethi David Morris
"If all the sins of all the people of the world are paid for, then even the sin of unbelief is paid for, and then everyone would be in heaven whether they believe or not. Well, I knew that was not so.
However, if the sin of unbelief was not paid for and the faith of mankind put the atoning power of the blood into effect, then it was the blood and the faith of man that saves. But I reasoned this to be a false gospel. It must be the blood alone that saves! And so I concluded that since the blood raises dead spirits to lifethat they may hear and believe, justifies, and progressively sanctifies, it must have only been shed for those who endure to the end unto salvation."

From the sound of her writings about her 'dream guy', she got exactly what she was looking for with Sean Morris.

     Thread Starter

9/01/2014 7:43 pm  #7

Re: Preethi and Moses David

Moses David on the streets with Church of Wells.

From the crowd:

• "They are inciting a riot."

• "My dad's a Baptist preacher, so I asked him. I was, like, 'what are y' this part of your, what's going on'...He was just lookin' at me, like...he's so high or something that I don't even understand what he's saying."

• "They're a cult. No, some kinda cult."

A conversation later on -

CoW member: Can I share with you...
Guy on the street: Of course!

[Talk back and forth, guy on the street explains that he was raised in the Baptist Church, his whole family is Baptist, he's familiar with the Bible and scripture. Asks CoW guy what he is. CoW guy says he was raised Catholic and went to CCD (Cathecism).]

CoW: Well, a lot of churches, they teach, just like, watered-down, ah, gospel...
Street guy: What do you mean, "watered-down?"
CoW guy: They don't teach, like, the hard truth that Jesus Christ uh preached. Which prompted men, to, like, want to kill him. You know, in the scriptures, there's like ten instances noted before he was crucified where men, like, plotted against him to kill him or tried to kill him, and he, like, escaped away. What of these things that would, like, allow men, to, like, wanna go after him and kill him like that?
Street guy: I think he was a threat to the establishment at the time. To both the Romans and the Jews at the time. He was a threat to them, because he was preaching, you know, more of an independent kind of religion, rather than...
CoW guy: He was preaching the truths, that were hidden in the Old Testament.
Street guy: Uh huh.
CoW guy continues: That without the Holy Spirit, a person's not going to be able to...they'll read it and they won't be able to understand what's going on. They'll read it in one way...It's like this hidden message of, like, who God is, and it's only, like, you're only able to read it and receive it if you have the Holy Spirit.
So, he came preaching this hidden message which was actually the truth in the Old Testament the whole time, that these men have no spiritual life, they were dead, they never had the spirit of God in them, so they were assuming, like, this is what it says and this is what it means. When they were completely, like, missing...

Street guy: How can you receive and understand the message when you don't know it in the first place?
CoW guy: That's the mystery of God. It comes to a humble man. It comes to somebody that's willing to humble themselves to God and admit...that they don't know anything. That they're wrong and they need help...they need to be humble enough to ask God for help, and two, they need to be humble enough to recognize they do have a wicked heart that wants to rebel against God. You know, if somebody's willing to humble themselves on those two things, truly, then, like, they can just ask God...

It goes on like this for awhile, difficult to hear and understand.

CoW guy: ...I found, that a lot of churches don't really preach that. They'll just tell you Jesus loves you and they won't get into the deep things of the scriptures. [Note - the CoW guy is 22.]
Street guy, working hard to say something meaningful: It's difficult. It's hard to,'s hard for a person to totally give themselves over to the Lord.
CoW guy: That's right. It's impossible.
Street guy: It's impossible? I thought that's what you said you had to do
CoW: That's right. Jesus Christ...put it this way, he said, that which is impossible with man, is possible with God. It's a mystery. It's a mystery of godliness.
Street guy: Well, I was just saying it's hard for Joe Schmoe, you know, goes to church and he's told, 'you have to give yourself over to the Lord, completely give yourself over'. That's very difficult for him to do. I think it's human nature. It's just difficult to not have a will of your own.
CoW guy: That's right. That's why it's the love of God. That's why you say Christianity is all about love. It's true really. It's the love of God that...

A cop comes over: Since you're the only one I can talk to, y'all are going to have to go, because you're fixing to start a riot. Okay? You're disturbing the peace now. It's getting ugly.
Street guy: This guy's being real...kind...
Cop: That's what I'm sayin'. That's why I'm coming to talk to you, you're about the only one that's sensible. And it's fixin' to turn ugly. Real quick.
Street guy: Maybe you should tell 'em that... 
Cop: Come back tomorrow night, if you want. But we need to...
Street guy:'s not helping at this point.
Cop: ...we need to stop. And I'm sorry...
CoW guy: I'll talk to them.

Another 7 minutes goes by, the CoW guy tries to restart and pick it back up. Louder voices, shouting and disturbance in the background.

CoW guy: There's one other thing that I want to say. That is God is holy. What that means, it's beyond our comprehension how pure, you know, his love is. You know, when somebody goes to heaven, they can't bear the love of God. That's why, like, they have to have this, like, new glorified body.
A different guy interrupts CoW guy: I'm sorry to bother you, but the officer's calling for you.
CoW guy: I'll be over in a little bit. ...But also, like, God is so holy that all evil will be done away with. You know, He can't allow evil in the heavens. And that's why, that's why, you need to, like, escape...
Street guy: You need to help your friends out. I don't want you to get in trouble. With...with...I don't want you to get in trouble. I don't want you to get hurt.
CoW guy ignores him: I just want you to consider...want you to consider...[more]
Another voice: Take care of your friends.

CoW guy continues to preach to Street guy. Sounds of increasing disturbance and CoW preaching over the crowd.

Recording: A L A N O P O L I S  

     Thread Starter

9/07/2014 2:08 am  #8

Re: Preethi and Moses David

Let's talk about this.

1. "...unrighteous slander of a few unhappy parents."
Again with the blaming parents. Come on, kids. Grow up. This is not about a couple of hostile controlling moms that wanna boss around their grown-up children. It isn't. Nor is it about "righteousness." It isn't.

Fact - Sean Morris and Ryan Ringnald are a couple of over-privileged spoilt white boys. Grown up to be controlling, mean and babyish men with over-inflated egos and an outrageous sense of entitlement. I suppose they got their way when they were little and they're determined to have their way now. 'Eccentric', if you want. I call it rude and bossy. They drug in 50 other people and coached them that it's okay to be that way. No, it's not. 

Fact - When these rude angry-voiced people rolled into town in January 2012, they hadn't yet recruited Catherine Grove into the fold. She wasn't there. Her "unhappy parents" had no awareness of Church of Arlington/Wells.

• So which "few unhappy parents" were there, then? How many, really? The truth, now.
Sean and Jesse Morris, your father? Ryan, your parents? How about you, Cory? A whole group of your folks worried about you, didn't they? Was Dr. Williams supporting you then? William Pierce had to be removed from his grandfather's funeral because he was chastising berating loving yelling at his mourning family. Kristin and Daniel were already giving her mother and father the cold shoulder, before the baby died. Daniel doesn't seem to have any parents, who knows what they thought. The Brasells - were they all good with this pack both their daughters married into? Daniel Scofield rejected his Bible-believin' Christian family, as well. Maseo Gonthier doesn't mention his family, but he'd already had conflict with people who loved him like family. They had to decide if they should call the police. Miranda Corriz and her husband Eric had already given her mother the finger.
The Courvilles, Kisers and Phillips families - there weren't any public testimonies against them, but they shunned them too. These are the evangelical Christian families who married their quivering daughters to the leaders. Sean and Ryan declared them ungodly and unsaved and called them enemies, Moses. Was this because they believed "unrightous slander" they found on the internet, you think? Seriously. Moses, do you genuinely believe that career evangelists and leaders of their own churches and congregations, who knew these young men, made decisions about them based on lies?

So, which parents, exactly, were happy with Church of Arlington/Wells? How many parents and family members had a quality, loving warm relationship with this group? Who are you talking about? Besides yourself, who else visits them and has any sort of close warm intimacy?  

2. Boycott of the local people caused the R & R Mercantile to close? 
A couple of points here:
• The local community does have power. Unified community action makes a difference.
• There is a voice here. The voice of the town. This group's neighbors have spoken.
• Scraping aside the goopy layers of supernatural angry God mumbo-jumbo and scriptural spin, what do we have? We have rudeness. Lack of boundaries. Pushy, overbearing newcomers. Lack of respect and grace and basic courtesy that we are all aware of, regardless of background, upbringing, ethnicity, religion. Social mores. They can make whatever excuses they please. Courtesy and good manners are universal.

3. They were "robbed?"
​Fact - Nobody owes anyone a living.
These young men were gifted with education and resources, by virtue of birth into financially secure families. They did nothing to earn it. They've done nothing to give back; to be a tiny bit grateful for their good fortune and opportunities. The rest of them as well. They didn't create anything for themselves - they shoplifted it from their families.

• A town of 700 cannot support the gas station and collaborative of businesses and services this group wanted to sell. They needed the regional economy, not just the town. They made a reputation for themselves as pushy and difficult. That takes a toll on commerce.
This clan went from one side of east Texas to the other, screaming, ranting and raving at people. Interrupting social events. Inappropriately approaching kids on school campuses and in church functions. Getting in students' faces on university campuses. Challenging the regional community in aggressive demanding ways. Church of Wells can call it "love" all they like, it's obnoxious and unpleasant. Other human beings have the right to not be forced to endure it. Everyone has the right to choose their environment and how they are treated. Period. 

• They're responsible for their behaviour. They robbed themselves. They fouled their nest.

4. Your numbers "affected" represent the entire group. In order for this to be true and accurate, this must also be true: either the other businesses in the Charity Enterprises, Inc. corporation are a sham and don't actually generate revenue; or all accounts receivable (revenue) are managed as a single entity. In other words, revenue from each enterprise goes into a collective pool used to support the whole group.

Fact - A gas station/convenience store will not support 123 people. Annual per capita income for Wells is $10,600. Let's pretend that will pay for a family of four for a year. That equates to $325,950 for the "family" of Church of Wells. That means the gas station would have to net $6,300 profit per week. But reality is that $10,600 per person is more reasonable. Church of Wells needs upwards of $1.3 million per year to take care of its 123-member family. If all 35 men would work full-time jobs with $30,000 salary, they still wouldn't have enough for the collective. 

Fact - Businesses like this have vendors and suppliers who get paid for their goods upfront. There's a fuel account. Meat and milk suppliers. The laundry had new high-end machines. Most likely an equipment lease with service agreements. Expensive. In addition, it would only employ 4-16 employees, depending on shift coverage. 
I have no idea what their business model was, but how could this possibly work?

5. There were others in their group. They left. They'll keep on leaving. In the end, family is everything. Family is where they take you in, when you have nowhere else to go. The fact that they've left behind stunned hurt families and friends can also be viewed in a positive light - it means they have people who love them. People who will love them to the end of time, no matter what they do. People who will welcome them back with joy and delight when they choose to return. At no cost. No demonstrations of loyalty. No tests of inclusion. Nothing required for membership.

6. "It's a blessed thing to be persecuted for Christ's sake...we are rejoicing because of this suffering!"
The gas station didn't fail because of persecution. This group isn't persecuted. They don't want to be accountable for their actions and decisions. They aren't suffering for Christ. What unbearable arrogance and self-absorbtion. They're exploiting God for their own selfish purposes. Using spirituality as an excuse and a means to an end.

There's nothing at all wrong with a modest lifestyle and working a trade. Wearing long skirts and having lots of babies. Homeschooling. Whatever, lifestyle is individual choice and diversity is the spice of life.
There is something wrong with mean and ugly. Belittling and berating strangers. Hurting others. Rejecting family and friends as unsuitable. There's something wrong with hijacking God to justify agenda.

     Thread Starter

9/17/2014 9:30 am  #9

Re: Preethi and Moses David

Cross-post from "What other spiritual leaders/pastors have to say." March 2014

Many of the Church of Wells group are children of preachers and ecumenical professionals. Sean Morris' new wife, Preethi, comes from a rigid evangelical Christian family and her father and brother are preachers and evangelizers.

He's offered an opinion by way of addressing the Groves; delivered on a commercial radio show's promotional Facebook and can be taken as a public statement. 

...I am confident that the real breakthroughs will come when we all humble ourselves and come under the hand of Almighty God. May the work of Christ be perfected in us through obedience, submitting to His Spirit and following the narrow way unto life. Whom He calls, He also justifies, and whom He justifies, He also sanctifies, and whom He sanctifies, He also glorifies. May Christ's righteous work be completed in us as we humbly submit to His will to come out of darkness into His marvelous Light. This is Christ's work of salvation from the corrupt world, whose prince is the power of the air, the spirit who lives in the sons of disobedience. I am praying that Catherine's family will be restored to her through peace in Christ. In Christ alone is hope found. Love in Christ, Moses, formerly prince of Egypt [sic]
Moses M. David

A few details for clarity. Moses David's theological foundation is essentially the same as Church of Wells. He established his own local church that looks and sounds like CoW. In fact, one of the Welldurs is his deacon, Chris Faulkner. Which is how his daughter Preethi ultimately ran off and eloped with CoW in the first place. 
He and his son are on good terms with Sean, Ryan and Jake, and earned the five-star peaceful rating as persons "right with God" or at least "regenerate." One of these:

"Remember, we cannot have fellowship with anyone who is not 'in the light'..."  Sean Morris, Doctrine of Judgement.

1)  The 1st and most peaceful familial life - All persons in the family are regenerate & right with God. 
2)  2nd Most peaceful – All persons in the family are regenerate but not all are right with God; however, the principles of fellowship, judgment, reproof, and repentance are understood and accepted by all persons to be the inevitable devotion and obligation for all professing Christians.

Like the Church of Wells, David adopts stylizied 18th-century-English-preacher speech and has the same propensity to speak in a tone of bible verse and scripture, even when he isn't quoting actual scripture. 

This style of speech gives the impression of extra Godliness. King James Version purity. It's a psychological tool. Specialness. Something better and finer, but also difficult to understand. A special uncommon language; a vernacular unique to special Godly people. It's hard to know exactly what they mean. The subtle inference is that if one doesn't understand, one is inferior. Less Godly. Perhaps not one of the elite righteous, 'The Chosen'.

But it's a bit pretentious. 
First of all, that now-archaic English was contemporary speech for English and Scottish Reformation preachers. That's how everyone spoke at the time and quite easily understood by listeners. They all spoke that way. The "King James" version of the bible was an English translation commissioned by - guess who - King James. That's how King James spoke.

Second, that "biblical-sounding" affectation isn't historical or culturally accurate in the first place. Anthropologically inconsistent with reality. That may have been common speech during the time of King James, but that's not how Moses and Abraham spoke and sounded. In the first century, they didn't speak English. And all those Bible characters weren't European. They were Middle Eastern. Hebrew. Egyptian. Jordanian. What we know now as Arabic. You get the picture. They spoke Middle Eastern languages; they certainly did not have knights of the Crusades' English accents and speech patterns.

Third, who really speaks that way? Seriously. Mr. David has a job. Does he interact with his coworkers like that? Does he go into Human Resources to resolve his parking issues and use that vernacular? Do these people go to the auto repair shop and use 17th-century English with the repairman? At the bank?
The Church of Wells "elders," Preethi David, Moses and Arnand David; they've all attended university and have degrees. Did they do their papers in Renaissance English? How did any of them get through school?

Here's the thing - if you do that, you're dishonest. The inferrence isn't superiority; it's a suggestion of fraud.

In the bigger picture, why would any real man of God want to make sharing that message more complicated and less accessible?


9/21/2014 4:50 pm  #10

Re: Preethi and Moses David

From Lamar Hankins, The Rag Blog, "Child murder in Texas"

Moses David says:
September 21, 2014 at 1:53 pm

Dear Just Wondering, I heard that there was a welfare check on Catherine by the police a few days ago. You can check with them on how Catherine is doing, since no one seems to believe the insider reports about Catherine. Love in Christ, Moses.

     Thread Starter

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